2018 Baseball OffseasonThread

Blue&White
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Re: 2018 Baseball OffseasonThread

Postby Blue&White » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:14 am

On the relief pitcher question - I think there is a difference between a closer and a DH. A DH plays half the game. It's a joke. A relief pitcher does everything he's expected to do. Pitching is his game. Throughout baseball's history guys who pitched relief were generally not looked at to bat. They always worked around them. So, unless we are going to say "no relief pitchers in the Hall", you need some measurement to judge them. I think "Saves" is a bit of a ridiculous standard, but Rivera's overall numbers are Hall of Fame worthy. He was a machine.

I just think that him being the first guy to get 100% of the vote is ridiculous over guys who were out there starting or playing a position every inning.
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sameoldlama
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Re: 2018 Baseball OffseasonThread

Postby sameoldlama » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:37 am

The ridiculous thing isn't Rivera got a 100% vote - he was the best at his position ever - it's that the other guys you mentioned didn't get a 100% because some douchebag sportswriter thinks he's got to prove a pointless point. Hopefully now that mentality is gone and guys who deserve that honor get it.
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psu_dad
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Re: 2018 Baseball OffseasonThread

Postby psu_dad » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:51 am

I think there is a difference between a closer and a DH. A DH plays half the game. It's a joke. A relief pitcher does everything he's expected to do. Pitching is his game.

A closer plays 1/18 of a game. It's a joke. A DH does everything he's expected to do. Hitting is his game.
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Blue&White
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Re: 2018 Baseball OffseasonThread

Postby Blue&White » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:44 pm

Relief pitchers were part of the original game of baseball and part of the master plan. The DH was a marketing gimimck put out becuase the American League of the late 1960s and early 1970s simply could not compete with the National League (a problem that was mostly solved by the elimination of the Reserve Clause and the advent of free agency). I'm also pretty sure that there are several intrepetations of both Leviticus and Dueteronomy that condemn the use of the designated hitter and refer to it as "an abomination". It's right after that stuff about not mixing wool and linnen together.

As for Rivera, his lifetime numbers are unbelievable. I still don't think that he deserves more votes than, say Seaver or Koufax, but I think he's good enough for the Hall of Fame. He was nearly automatic for years.
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psu_dad
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Re: 2018 Baseball OffseasonThread

Postby psu_dad » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:13 pm

Relief pitchers were part of the original game of baseball and part of the master plan.

Nope.

For most of the 20th century, a relief pitcher was a has-been who could no longer cut it as a starter. The general expectation was that more often than not, the starter would finish what he started.

It's not an accident that no relievers were ever elected to the HOF until the mid-1980s. It wasn't a respected role until later in the 20th century when guys like Rollie Fingers started to become prominent. And the sub-category of "closer" came about even more recently than that.

In the context of baseball history, closer and DH are both modern specialty roles. Let them both into the HOF or keep them both out. I don't have strong feelings either way, other than being consistent.
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Blue&White
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Re: 2018 Baseball OffseasonThread

Postby Blue&White » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:44 pm

For most of the 20th century, a relief pitcher was a has-been who could no longer cut it as a starter. The general expectation was that more often than not, the starter would finish what he started.

I'm not sure what you are saying "nope" to. You just confirmed that they have been around. And, there have been relief pitchers back to the late 1800s. That they were usually has-beens or guys who never really made it doesn't change the fact that they were always there. I agree that putting good pitchers into the Pen is a recent pheneomen and agree that's why no relief pitchers were considered for the Hall of Fame before - because most of them sucked. But, it's not a new things.

Back when you were a kid, the Dodgers had a relief pitcher named Phil Regan who was nicknamed "The Vulture" because of all the cheap wins he got when the Dodgers starters were pulled late for pinch hitters.

And, The Sporting News started giving out an aware for "The Best Reliever of the Year" for both leagues back in 1960. Bullpens are not a new thing. Relief pitchers are not a new thing. They are part of the original game. Having talented pitchers in the pen is a relatively new thing - maybe 40 or 50 years, but that doesn't change the fact that there have been relief pitchers for as long as their has been baseball.

Designated Hitters, on the other hand, are a left over marketing gimmick from the 70s. It should have vanished at the same time we lost mutton chops, disco, and the multicolor uniforms of the Houston Astros.
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psu_dad
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Re: 2018 Baseball OffseasonThread

Postby psu_dad » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:09 pm

Disco should be a felony in any civilized society, but desert boots are totally making a come-back.

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Blue&White
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Re: 2018 Baseball OffseasonThread

Postby Blue&White » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:04 am

Baseball season!!!!

Blue&White
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Re: 2018 Baseball OffseasonThread

Postby Blue&White » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:30 pm

Hey dad

Not sure if you saw it but the Red Sox signed former Met, and former banned-for-life, pitcher, Jennry Mejia to a minor league contract. He is not invited to spring training and has zero chance of breaking the opening day major league roster. But, he's a cheap, low-risk/high-ceiling guy and it was a smart move to grab him. He's only 29 and his arm is very low mileage as he's not been able to pitch much the past few years (although he was playing down in the Mexican league so it's not like he didn't throw at all). If he bombs, you cut him and it cost you almost nothing. And, if he can still pitch at or near the level he was when he was suspended, you have a guy who you can call up that has major league epxerience, was a closer at one point - and a good one - and you'll only have to pay him the minimum.

Btw, if you go read about this, you'll see that a lot of major leaguers are not happy about him getting signed. I basically agree, but I still think it was a smart move.
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psu_dad
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Re: 2018 Baseball OffseasonThread

Postby psu_dad » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:30 am

I finally had a chance to look at this. What's interesting is that Mejia was actually re-instated last July. The Mets signed him to a minor league contract near the end of last season and he made a couple of decent appearances for their team in Hooterville, striking out 10 in 7 scoreless innings. But the Mets released him in November. I guess they weren't impressed for some reason.

This kinda/sorta reminds me of the Patriots signing Josh Gordon earlier this year. No one around here got too excited because they figured it was only a matter of time before he f*cked up again. But it's also like that situation in that the Red Sox have little to lose.
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