Random Thoughts Again

PSUgrower
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Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:52 am

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby PSUgrower » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:03 pm

https://www.thetrace.org/2015/07/gun-background-checks-nics-failure/

Something I found. I don't think an employer can not give you a job based on passed mental health issues or if you admitted to drug abuse in the past. That is #4 and #8.

Blue&White
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Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby Blue&White » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:20 pm

I don't think an employer can not give you a job based on passed mental health issues or if you admitted to drug abuse in the past. That is #4 and #8.

Depends. The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) will have certain protections for people with genuine diagnosed issues, but if you don't fall within those parameters they most certainly can refuse you employment based on that. So, having an alcohol problem that results in you ending up in a rehabilitation center I believe (I'm not 100% sure about this) would be something they can't hold against you when considering you for employment - even if you still drink (but they can refuse to hire you if they suspect you're a drunk). But, if you have a known drinking problem you never did anything about then I think they can say "no thanks" based on that.

A lot of these things tend to be fact specific.

On that list, there are a few things that don't quite make sense to me. For example, when it comes to Dylan Roof, they say he shouldn't have been able to buy a gun because he had confessed to illegal possession of a controlled substance. Confessed to who? Or, more to the point, how was that reflected as something the FBI should have picked up? Did they screw up with him? Or, did he plead to some lessor offense and all the NICS picked up was that lessor offense?

So, for example, if the cops catch you with a few joints but you go to court and the DA agrees to a citation that has a lower offense, even if you admitted in open court you had the joints if the ultimate offense you plead guilty to did not include a drug offense, that isn't likely something that gets picked up by the NICS when they run the check. So, while someone going to look at the public record may find out that he admitted to having some weed, someone looking at his arrest and conviction history only may have no idea. Was this a screw up or was it the result of how it is reported?

As for the state prohibitor, they give the example of "abusing alcohol" . Define "abuse". And, how does the state know that? Does it require a DUI? A drunk and disorderly arrest? Who makes that determination from a legal perspective and how is that reported? Does the NCIS pull from the South Caroline file on "known drunks"?

The fundamental problem here is people have rights and one of those rights is a protection against ending up in a federal database that has a list of people who's rights are to be infringed. There is no easy way to start capturing people who have potential mental health issues. I continue to believe that whole argument is just a massive red herring.

The problem isn't we are not diligent enough in stopping crazy people buy guns. Personally, I think anyone wants an AR 15 is crazy. The problem is that military grade weapons can be bought by civilians.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

PSUgrower
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Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby PSUgrower » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:39 pm

I completely agree with you which is why I think background checks are a joke! I am sure they are easy to skirt around or people will just end up not admitting to anything.

The easiest thing to do is keep the guns out of everybody's hands. I am all for the 2nd amendment but no one needs a gun that shoots 30 bullets in 3 seconds (I am being sarcastic with that number). I have an idea, if you want to shoot a gun that fires 60 rounds in 4 seconds then you can join a gun club and sign up to use that gun. You rent the gun and it can only be shot at that gun range. You purchase bullets too. Shoot it all you want at that gun range and then return it before you walk out the door. In fact, we should do this with a lot of weapons. You want to drive a tank and shoot a tank gun. Feel free but it is going to cost you!

Carl Spackler
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Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby Carl Spackler » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:56 pm

Yes, I've filled out the firearm background check, as I've noted about a dozen times, and it is not onerous. It is simple, asks simple questions that I can't quote, it's been a while since the last time. But, anyone can lie about a question and the background check only does a police search so your craziness is not in any manner checked as far as I know. And, if agencies do not report required info e.g. the Air Force in the church murders in Texas then there is a deeper issue of sloth.

I suspect B&W's background check was more rigorous for a job, I believe mine was too. The background check needs to have a wider basis of info to be more effective.

Yet, as dad notes, violent people and sadly violent children are murdering other children or are killing themselves, on school grounds at an alarming rate. Therefore until we can ferret out the violent/crazy/depressed/murderers we had better protect our children while at school. This requred armed guards because you can't fight an enemy with your fists when they bring a firearm, legally purchased, stolen, illegally purchased or manufactured out of thin air. It makes no difference, the violent child is there to kill no manner the tool used. Take away their firearms (which you can't do as they will acquire one or more on the street if their desire to murder is great enough or use another tool). I understand you can inquire as to the method and manner as to build a bomb on the INTERNET SO should we ban the Internet? Shut it down? Because miscreants misuse it? IT's the same argument in my thinking. Of course not but some will misuse it to kill, the 911 terrorists communicated over the Internet for years prior to murdering nearly 3000 Americans.

This is a bit silly I know but its all gotten a bit silly at this point. I think dad has it positioned as good as anyone can. There are two sides and really shades of those sides that don't agree in principle with hard liners on the side they favor. I believe that describes me. I think violence is the issue but also believe the background check system is flawed, not stringent enough but Grower made some good points as well about the issue.

Some are comparing a job background check with the firearm check and they are not at all similar. I fill out a form at my Pain Mgt. doc's office I discussed before. Any drug seeking addict will lie their a$$ off on that form. The doc and PA's do a good job of assessing the addict drug seekers from the legitimate pain patients but having us all fill out a silly form that is manipulated by the illegal drug seeking populace is a futile exercise put on them/us by some regulating bureaucrat and does not work or perform its desired end. Just as more gun/drug laws won't either. Laws are for the honest, decent people just as locks are for the same group. The people who would never consider breaking a lock or the law (minus speeding). Drunk drivers who murder innocents go right back and do it, one man in Ohio was stopped for his 24th drunk driving charge. His license was removed 20 times, he still drives drunk. My wife used to draw blood and test it from an alcoholic, who was admitted to the hospital at least twice a year while she worked there, until they dried him out. As soon as he was well, he was released and drove to a bar, got out of his mind drunk and drove home hitting a dozen parked cars on the way. The police confiscate his car, he buys another and does it again until he is so sick he is readmitted to the hospital and they do it all over again. We moved away and she heard this man was still in the cycle years later.

Laws don't impact the miscreants in society. Never will. We live in a nation based on individual liberty with laws constraining us from wrong behaviors. Some abuse this liberty and break our laws. That is what the judicial system is made for but when a lone terrorist, a child bent on murder enters a school unhindered and freely murders other students indiscriminately or selectively they must be stopped. The police are minutes away and the killing is in full swing before they will arrive. WE MUST PROTECT OUR CHILDREN WITH ARMED GUARDS AT SCHOOLS,ENOUGH TO COVER ALL ENTRANCES, PERIOD. If we don't we are kidding ourselves as whatever has turned a subset of our children into murders, violent killers, won't be found and corrected anytime soon.
So I got that going for me...which is nice. It's a cross between Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent and Northern California Sensimilla so you can play 36 holes on it,take it home at night and get stoned to the begesses belt

Carl Spackler
Posts: 416
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Phone Spoofing Problem

Postby Carl Spackler » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:03 pm

Not to divert but this is Random Thoughs, OK?

I have received several calls from people who said I phoned them. When I explain that I did not call them some get very vulgar toward me but one man told me someone is spoofing my number and calling other people with it as it happened to him previously and he immediately understood what happen to me. This afternoon a particularly vulgar 19 year old called me accusing me of calling her earlier today. Of course I didn't but tried, politely, to explain to her the spoofing number problem. She was impervious to my explanation and F bombed me consistently. After about a dozen and my patience with the third round of telling her she and I were being used I gave up and ended the call abruptly.

Is anyone else having this issue? If so, can anything be done about it successfully?
So I got that going for me...which is nice. It's a cross between Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent and Northern California Sensimilla so you can play 36 holes on it,take it home at night and get stoned to the begesses belt

Crowbar
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Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby Crowbar » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:26 pm

Carl - I've never had this issue. However, I would start by calling the phone company to let them know. Maybe they can change your number or somehow get some sort of anti-spoofing mechanism in place (if there is such a thing).

Good luck. That sucks. I would also not answer the phone if you don't know the number.
41-33.

psu_dad
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Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby psu_dad » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:48 pm

I would also not answer the phone if you don't know the number.

Bingo.

Everyone l know and expect phone calls from is in my phone. Their name pops up when they call. If a call comes in with just a number (no name)
I never answer. The only exception is if I'm expecting a call at a particular time from a first-time caller. Otherwise, if the call is important, they'll leave a message. More often than not, they don't.
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Blue&White
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Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby Blue&White » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:25 pm

Carl

On the phone thing, you're number is certainly being spoofed. Here is a link that gives some suggestions on what to do. The short version is: there is not a whole lot you can do. But, it's worth a read. At minimum, call your provider and let them know.

Also, on your earlier post:

Some are comparing a job background check with the firearm check and they are not at all similar.

Sorry, but that is absolutely incorrect. They are exactly similar. Both are trying to ascertain if you have a criminal conviction, arrest, history of domestic violence, etc. Both are reliant on the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which is maintained by the FBI. There is no functional difference here. None. If background checks for guns are somehow allowed to circumvent the very simple and straightforward procedure set forth by the NICB process and rely on individuals answering questions instead of simply providing their finger prints and state provided identification, I am back to my previous comment that this is a feature and not a bug and is intended to allow people who should be prohibited from buying guns to still buy guns. If there is some functional difference that allows people to slip through the cracks, it is intentional. I've never gone through the process but I can't believe, after all these shootings, this is a manual process that allows you to skirt it by lying on a questionnaire.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

Carl Spackler
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Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:22 pm

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby Carl Spackler » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:33 pm

psu_dad wrote:I would also not answer the phone if you don't know the number.

Bingo.

Everyone l know and expect phone calls from is in my phone. Their name pops up when they call. If a call comes in with just a number (no name)
I never answer. The only exception is if I'm expecting a call at a particular time from a first-time caller. Otherwise, if the call is important, they'll leave a message. More often than not, they don't.


And that's the challenge dad and cbar. Today was at the time my wife calls me daily and I did not look closely at my flip cell phone, opened it and hit the answer key. Generally I do ignore calls I realize are not from someone I know but at times with various medical orgs. and people calling me from one of them on a different number within the company which is not in my listed number, I'm stuck answering just to keep things going and occasionally I discover it is a fraud call. It this man hadn't phoned me to ask why I called him and then explained, after I said I never called him, that someone has a computer program to spoof phone numbers. I got a text to pick my $760k from the UN Habitat Committee or something akin to it, then today this.

We had to go through a credit card fiasco last week, cut up cards because Chase allow a person with a completely different name a card connected to our card and changed our address to another state! They said our email acct. was hacked and they was why this happened. Our email was not hacked and still isn't. They make so much money they can afford some fraud while allowing any and everyone a card. The fraud division sent us a letter about the card 2 weeks after they sent a card to the criminal. He had charged several things on the acct. we had to have removed, this is OH I've lost count, over a dozen incidents of fraud perpetrated on my wife or me.

Enough typing, Great Gobs of Goo$e $h!t Gertie it's time for action.
So I got that going for me...which is nice. It's a cross between Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent and Northern California Sensimilla so you can play 36 holes on it,take it home at night and get stoned to the begesses belt

Carl Spackler
Posts: 416
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:22 pm

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby Carl Spackler » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:28 am

The form in question. I forgot all the places one could misrepresent and know that mental health, drug use, etc. are not in the database checked, its the honor system folks, for honorable people, just like gun free zones are for honorable people. I can see opportunities to misrepresent all the way down the form. If someone wants something enough they will do what it takes to obtain it.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download
#'s 1 through 21 can be manipulated, fake ID's, lies, fabrications: I love # 11: b & c may catch some but a, d, e & f are easily lied through while g, h & i who knows if it shows up on the report? 12 through 14 with all their subsets are just precious. I can't imagine them stopping any criminal from lying and passing. It's daMn near laughable if it wasn't so tragic. But to say this Florida nut bought his gun legally is missing the point of the issue, he likely lied on at least # 11 parts e & f at a minimum and the paragraph on the top of page two is very clear on the ways your answers will be used against your ability to "legally purchase" any firearm in a gun shop no matter the style, appearance, mechanism of action, etc. You would have to be a mental defective to not answer this in a manner that would allow you to purchase barring a bad returned report, should you desire to murder your fellow man.

Considering that there are over 250 million firearms in this country I'd think we see massacres daily and would have since the late 1780's after the Constitution was passed. Why is this not common place everywhere, everyday, shootouts? Al Capone and Baby Face Floyd used machine guns obtained somewhere as they were not highly regulated back then. Bonnie & Clyde broke into Armories to steal BAR's (Browning Automatic Rifles) which they sawed off to use from the get away car more easily. Today only a very, tiny minority of people - sadly children in most school murders, are using firearms illegally. I'll volunteer to sit at a local school door several days a month to help stop this murder spree from expanding. I'm a rather good marksman. Put in metal detectors and other hardening methods in our schools and I'm on board, personally because even should I go down I'll be pulling that trigger as my last drop of blood and breath fade away to stop a miscreant and save children's lives, book it.

When we are serious we will protect children in schools and on the way in school buses (another easy place to kill big numbers and become instantly infamous for doing so on the 24/7 media). Many brag on social media and threaten others, its time to crack down. Little terrorists are among us scheming and planning to murder our children. Laws will not dissuade or deter them, they will circumvent them to do their worst.
So I got that going for me...which is nice. It's a cross between Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent and Northern California Sensimilla so you can play 36 holes on it,take it home at night and get stoned to the begesses belt