Random Thoughts Again

Blue&White
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby Blue&White » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:12 pm

If it were up to me, I'd start with European or Australian types of restriction on gun ownership. It's not a panacea. It won't completely resolve the problem but, based on Australia's example, it will reduce the problem.

Here is a Fact Check article that provides numbers on Australia. It's from a month ago. Again, murder didn't stop in Australia from their actions, but the carnage certainly slowed down.

Jerry Garcia
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:13 pm

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby Jerry Garcia » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:22 pm

I guess I should have qualified the question by adding the phrase "remotely politically viable." We both know that an Australian type solution would precipitate a political sh!tstorm that would make Trump's election look like page-seven news. Million-man march? I think you'd see a ten-million-man march materialize within days.

Blue&White
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby Blue&White » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:48 pm

Oh, you wanted a politically viable solution? Well, that's completely different. Nope, don't have one of those.

We've got people in this country who can't bring themselves to admit the earth is round and not flat, so expecting people to agree on a solution for gun control isn't going to happen any time soon.

Maybe we could throw some money at treating mental illness since that seems to be the bogeyman every time some white guy shoots up a bunch of people. I doubt it will do anything to stem the flow of blood, but perhaps it can help people who are genuinely mentally ill, and their families, and can't afford help.

Carl Spackler
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:22 pm

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby Carl Spackler » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:32 pm

Did a quick and dirty review of the Aussie article.

With 2009 as the new law breakwater:
Pre Law
1996 354 deaths
2001 302 deaths
2002 366 deaths
2004 302 deaths
2006 322 deaths
2007 282 deaths
pre law deaths appear to be trending down

Post Law
2010 261 deaths
2011 276 deaths
2012 292 deaths
post law with an uptrend although less than pre law

They try the false positive method of deaths per 100,000 in an increasing population making the numbers skew in favor of post law numbers. I prefer to choose total fatalities which is the hard number not able to be manipulated.

Yes, there appear to be a reduced number of deaths by what...from even to 50 (a significant number if you were one of them!) plus in outliers.

I'm sure there were a slight reduction in deaths, always a good thing but it isn't proof positive that it worked, what other factors may have happened in that period? Economic stability, influx of immigrants, upsurge in pacifism, who knows. They said they reduced the private gun ownership by 20% n their buy back program, significant but still hundreds of thousands of firearms in private hands in Australia.

Obviously they didn't seem to comment on the motives in the fatalities, I'd like to see a chart on that to make an informed decision.

Americans freedom does have a price. That price should not be mentally deranged gunmen on murder sprees. How do you remove the insane hatred from seemingly normal citizens when a purchase is a hand? How to you stop alcoholic drivers of vehicles from murdering the innocent in other vehicles on our roads, a far more dangerous act than attending morning church services or country music concerts where deranged men wait in hiding to murder.

My thoughts on the matter:

Hate knows no bounds, follows no rules nor obeys no laws. Hate is a form of insanity. Too much hate is floating around and is or has been encouraged too often. Hate inflamed by rhetoric eventually turns into action when an individual reaches their insane level. Their weapon changes from firearms to trucks to knives to poison in a water supply (up coming) to whatever but the thing in common is hate.

LioninVa
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby LioninVa » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:06 pm

psu_dad wrote:But putting up concrete barriers in front of bike paths doesn't limit the ability of sane/responsible people to use their motor vehicles properly. I can't think of a comparable solution for guns. The only way to prevent mass shootings is to (1) prevent the sale of semi-automatic weapons and (2) confiscate the bazillion such weapons already in circulation. I imagine officials in NYC would have had more difficulty solving their recent problem if they had tried to ban and confiscate all motor vehicles.


How about extreme vetting of people looking to buy semiautomatic type weapons? As I understand it, the NRA is opposed to tracking purchases in great detail. This may not make a difference in yesterday’s act, but would have possibly exposed the assclown who shot up Vegas. Just a thought...

Crowbar
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:54 pm

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby Crowbar » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:21 pm

If I heard right, the background check for Kelley consisted of him checking the "No" box on an application form at the gun show he bought the gun at. And no further due diligence was performed. That to me is both unbelievable and unacceptable.

I don't understand how anyone could be opposed to an intensive background check on those purchasing firearms. Really, who would you be hurting?

Blue&White
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby Blue&White » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:47 pm

That to me is both unbelievable and unacceptable.

I'm with you on "unacceptable". I find it absolutely believable, though, and I'm not the least bit surprised by it.

Carl Spackler
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:22 pm

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby Carl Spackler » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:14 pm

I agree its unacceptable, the Air Force did not report him Dishonorably Discharged properly or he would not have been allowed to purchase the rifle. Of course he would have bought it illegally, paid more and there would not have been any traceable info. Illegal drugs or guns or anything our govt. controls is available for purchase if you have the cash.

Shore Lion
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby Shore Lion » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:35 am

Carl Spackler wrote: Of course he would have bought it illegally, paid more and there would not have been any traceable info.


Yes, perhaps the purchase could have possibly still been made. But in my view the harder you make it to buy the more steps you have to take in order to do so. And that leads to more interaction with other people and more chances for someone to observe something and start talking about it.

psu_dad
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby psu_dad » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:39 am

I read the same thing that Carl apparently read. The Air Force failed to enter the guy's domestic violence history into the National Criminal Information Center database. That database must be checked before someone is able to purchase a firearm. Had his information been in the database, it should have prevented a gun sale to him.

There's not much point in passing more laws if we can't properly implement the ones we already have.