Random Thoughts Again

Blue&White
Posts: 2393
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby Blue&White » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:32 am

You need to be specifically told not to have a sexual relationship with a minor? What kind of morons are they hiring to be teachers?
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

LioninVa
Posts: 583
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby LioninVa » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:44 am

Not only do you need to be told, you need to sign a document that states you were told. Most people should know this stuff, but getting a signed statement really make the process go smoother when they screw up...

Welcome to the world of cover your ass!

psu_dad
Posts: 1621
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby psu_dad » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:04 pm

Image
Fire Alex Cora. (On hold pending further review)

sameoldlama
Posts: 624
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:43 am

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby sameoldlama » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:49 pm

Lion
For sure the signing of the training document is a protection from liability for the school. I would think it also closes the loophole in the event the student is 18 and thus from a strict criminal legal perspective - the relationship (assuming consensual) is subject to criminal prosecution but the school may face civil liability so they call out any relationship with students is inappropriate.

Due to the liability concerns - I believe as grower indicates - that educators get far more training regarding this matter than a generation ago - most teachers I know say they by either personal practice or school policy never allow themselves to be alone with a student - not because they would be tempted to act inappropriately but to protect from false allegations. My guess is the overwhelming majority of teachers never even think of pursuing a student, a small percentage have the impulse but the threat of consequences stops them from acting, a few recognize the risk but think they can get away with it and you also have those rare cases where they convince themselves they are not doing anything wrong and consequences be damned. I do think the increased visibility does reduce the number of occurrences as those who assess the risk - reward now see the risk as too high.

grower
There are some aspects of the teaching vocation that are enviable - especially if you are in a good district / state - but I'd say conditions vary widely - not only within a state but nationwide.

I'd venture being a teacher in Stamford, CT is a world away in terms of job stress and compensation than say - inner city Memphis. For those that know the PA area - I live in the Lehigh Valley and I could tell you within that small an area - I could teach at say a place like Parkland - I couldn't dream of dealing with the insanity of a place like Allen. With the increase in disrespect for traditional authority figures and the continued progression of the temper tantrum generation I wouldn't envy those at the helm of a lot of classrooms 10 years from now.
Wendall : That's very linear Sheriff
Ed Tom : Age will flatten a man Wendall

LioninVa
Posts: 583
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby LioninVa » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:03 pm

My wife teaches 3rd grade here in Norfolk. She does her best to keep from ever being alone with a child. Her reasoning is more disciplinary than the reasons being discussed, but the thought process is much the same. You are correct about different areas and/or demographics and how they impact a school. And this isn't specifically a race or color issue. I mean, the inner city schools are more African American and have their issues but some of the rural schools are red-neck central and they have their issues. While these issues may be different, the end result of failed tests are the same.

Not that this has anything to do with teachers schtupping students...

sameoldlama
Posts: 624
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:43 am

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby sameoldlama » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:39 pm

I'd say pay varies widely state to state - NJ / PA/ CT /CA generally pretty good - I travel to TN and from what I have read places like AZ, NM, OKL - not so good.

Each district brings it's own classroom challenges - so will bring the "helicopter parents" who expect way too much and want to run the show from the stands and some urban schools bring discipline issues. I don't know what the solution is but I also think efforts to mainstream kids with significant physical, mental or behavior issues has made the vocation more difficult.

Most long tenured teachers I know enjoy teaching but are getting burned out with managing parents or kids with significant behavior issues as they don't feel the schools have sufficient resources or legal ability to address the issues.
Wendall : That's very linear Sheriff
Ed Tom : Age will flatten a man Wendall

Blue&White
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Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby Blue&White » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:54 pm

There are some aspects of the teaching vocation that are enviable - especially if you are in a good district / state - but I'd say conditions vary widely - not only within a state but nationwide.

My wife is a speech therapist and she works with grade school kids, usually up to 5th grade (she can work with any age but her preferred age is 3rd grade and below). She works for schools under contract and she doesn't always get to chose where she lands. She spent 4 1/2 years with a charter school in Philly (and if you want to hear stories about graft and corruption we should start a thread on charter schools) and then spent 6 months in the Philly public schools. The charter school was generally ok, graft and corruption aside. The parents had to make an effort for their kids to be there and, generally, took an interest. Not all but most. the Philly public school, however, was a completely different animal. She dealth with 5th and 6th graders and they were coming in armed with knives, throwing punches at teachers or trying to stab them, and basically had no inclination to learn or listen. Not all of the kids but enough that the school was completely disrupted. Even the kids who wanted to learn and wanted to be there had almost zero chance because the environment was such a mess. And, some of the teachers were not much better, and would antagonize the kids. There was one teacher she thought should have been fired for putting his hands on a kid. He claimed it was self defense, but my wife didn't think so. But, there were other instances when it was definetely self defense.

They really liked her and told her that when she was eligible (she couldn't take a job as an employee for 6 months of the last day she worked, per her contract), they would absolutely hire her as an employee. We actually talked about it. Public schools have good benefits, a pension, paid holidays, and now she gets none of that. If it snows, she doesn't get paid. If she is sick, she doesn't get paid. And, all the tax withholding is on us. Ultimately, the problem was that once you are an employee of the Philly school system they can put you in any school and placement is based on seniority. she figured she would end up in a really bad neighborhood and given what she saw in a not-so-bad neighborhood, she said "screw that". It just wasn't worth it.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

LioninVa
Posts: 583
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby LioninVa » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:12 pm

My dad retired from teaching over 20 years ago. He was a math and physics teacher in a vocational high school. Most of the students didn't want to be in his class, but it was part of the curriculum. He had a good gig; for many years when I was young, there were literally two schools in one building, Green and White. Classes started in early august and ran late in June. In the fall, Green students and teachers were there Monday-Wednesday and White took Thursday-Saturday. At Christmas break, the switched. Everyone got a four day weekend every week and students were encouraged to intern or work part time in whatever trade they were learning. Teachers got together and started side groups painting housed or other odd jobs as well. He loved it but a new superintendent came in as decided it couldn't possibly work and killed it sight unseen. My father had seniority so he stayed on as the math teacher for several years. His last couple years, they put him on hall monitor during lunch. A kid got into a fight and pulled a knife while my dad was trying to break things up. Hu submitted is retirement papers that afternoon.

sameoldlama
Posts: 624
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:43 am

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby sameoldlama » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:22 pm

B&W
Your description of the downside of your wife's public school experience is consistent with what I hear from teachers. Some have told me they are getting students they describe as almost "feral" with zero ability to behave or learn in a standard school setting. I've heard the same stories of assaults (kids as young as 8-10) on top of just the disruptive behavior (using phones, talking, just getting up in middle of class). I even I've heard a story of an 8 year old sent to the principal for disruptive behavior and when the principal started talking to him kid got up, dropped his pants and took a shit. How do you deal with that?

And they all say just what your wife said - they feel bad because there are kids there who want to learn but it's near impossible due to the non-stop disruptive students -and their is no adequate mechanism to deal with the problem students. And they all say as soon as it is economically viable for them they are out - not because teaching isn't rewarding but it's not worth the risk. Several I know retired earlier than intended and either took lower paying jobs or sub at private / Catholic schools just due to safety issue. Some of these are guys I know from the gym - and they have concerns for their physical safety - it must be even scarier for women especially at the secondary level.
Wendall : That's very linear Sheriff
Ed Tom : Age will flatten a man Wendall

psu_dad
Posts: 1621
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Random Thoughts Again

Postby psu_dad » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:30 pm

Fire Alex Cora. (On hold pending further review)