These are a few more of my favorite peeves

Blue&White
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Re: These are a few more of my favorite peeves

Postby Blue&White » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:58 pm

Ok, I found the relevant law.

In his press conference, the sheriff said he couldn't arrest the man under the statute and, if he did, he could be subject to a civil suit. But, that's not correct. Per the statute, there is only the possible of civil penalties if you bring a civil action against someone who had the right to stand their ground. So, the victims family may not even be able to sue. But, the sheriff got the law exactly wrong.

Also, stand your ground is an affirmative defense, but whether or not you can claim it is decided outside of the jury process, and then the prosecutor must prove you didn't have the right to defend yourself. And, per the sheriff, it doesn't matter if the shooter acted objectively reasonable here. What matters is he subjectively decided he was still in danger from a man who was backing away from him and, therefore, could shoot him with impunity. So, basically what dad said before - you can shoot anyone in Florida as long as you can claim you feared for your safety.

That is seriously fucked up. I mean, that's just incredible. I can't believe that was the intent of those laws, although maybe it was. Maybe there are a bunch of politicians in Florida who are perfectly happy with this outcome. I can't believe, though, that people really want to live in a society where this is allowable.

Oh, one other thing - the sheriff went on TV and said that there was no probable cause to even arrest the shooter. So, even if the DA decides he's wrong, the case is already seriously compromised by the sheriff's statements. I mean, he makes a pretty good expert witness for the defense, don't you think? Unreal.
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PSUgrower
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Re: These are a few more of my favorite peeves

Postby PSUgrower » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:24 pm

I completely agree with the sheriff. You and I both said the victim was backing away but its not like the victim was 20 feet away from the shooter or even running away from the shooter. The victim was within a lunge! What if the shooter was starting to get up and the victim punched him in the face and turned the shooter into a vegetable for the rest of his life? A half decent defense attorney would crush a jury. Also, once the victim assaulted the shooter all bets are off.

psu_dad
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Re: These are a few more of my favorite peeves

Postby psu_dad » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:07 am

So, even if the DA decides he's wrong, the case is already seriously compromised by the sheriff's statements. I mean, he makes a pretty good expert witness for the defense, don't you think?

That probably depends entirely on the composition of the jury.
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sameoldlama
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Re: These are a few more of my favorite peeves

Postby sameoldlama » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:08 am

I'll say it again - none of the people involved in this event are blameless. None of them act in a reasonable, responsible and lawful manner

There was a chain of events and at each step someone had the chance to end this by acting in a sensible fashion.

The man and woman didn't have to park illegally in a handicapped spot (and note in subsequent interviews she has said she has the right to park wherever she wants - so he attitude was - rules don't apply to me).

The shooter could have simply said something and moved on - he didn't need to stand there and carry on the argument (video shows it was about 30 seconds from when he walks up to confrontation with Boyfriend). He supposedly has a history of confronting people for parking illegally in handicapped spots. While we can say people should be called out for illegally taking handicapped spots if your a private citizen who makes it a focal point of your life and confrontations with drivers got to the point you felt the need to arm yourself - you've taken it too far.

When called out the woman could of moved her car - she was clearly in the wrong - but instead likely went with "Eff you, you can't tell me what to do"

When the man exited the store he simply could have gotten in car and they could have driven off - instead he chose a blind side assault when the man wasn't presenting any physical danger to his gf.

And the shooter, once he produced his gun - could have gotten the guy to back off right there and gained safe distance - but he shot.

There was a story a few weeks ago about a guy who asked a fellow passenger for money and when the guy said know he hit him in the head with a metal pipe - cause the guy was disrespecting him. Saw a story today that a group was being rowdy at a bowling alley, when an employee came over and ask them to tone it down - they attacked him.

I'll say it again - when you run into idiots in public come and vent on nf.com - so may people now consider the slightest request for civil behavior as a personal challenge which calls for a violent response.
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LioninVa
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Re: These are a few more of my favorite peeves

Postby LioninVa » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:12 am

I think people are getting dumber. Not here, of course, but in general. Or, for whatever reason, they feel like it is perfectly fine to engage or confront someone rather than simply move along. Here is my up close and personal (sort of) experience:

My son worked at a well known retail chain a year and a half or so ago. It was a cold February day (very cold for here, down in the single digits) and his wife decided she needed some stuff from the store when he was getting dropped off. As they were going inside, their baby, a year or so old, pulled her sock off of her foot. Knowing full well that she would do it again, he handed the sock to mommy. Some busybody patron decides to chastise them for not having the baby's feet covered in the cold. At this point, they should have said "thank you, ma'am" and walked on. No, mom decided to engage this person and it escalated to the point where my son (who is dressed in store clothes) jumps in during a brief fit of rage. Long story short, he didn't work at that store much longer.

While not life threatening, this is similar to Lama's point. There were several junctions that could have avoided or changed the outcome but it seems people feel the need to push rather than just mind their own business or seek the path of least resistance.

psu_dad
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Re: These are a few more of my favorite peeves

Postby psu_dad » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:39 am

I'll say it again - when you run into idiots in public come and vent on nf.com

PSU_DAD: You and your mom are hillbillies. This is a house of learned doctors.
NAT: You're not a doctor. You're a big, fat, curly-headed f---.
PSU_DAD: Oh yeah?
NAT: Yeah.
PSU_DAD: I'm a curly-headed f---?
NAT: Yeah. You better not go to sleep. Cuz as soon as your eyes shut, I'm gonna punch you square in the face.
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Blue&White
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Re: These are a few more of my favorite peeves

Postby Blue&White » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:00 am

I'll say it again - none of the people involved in this event are blameless. None of them act in a reasonable, responsible and lawful manner

No, they did not. But, there are degrees. Parking in a handicapped spot is wrong but, in the scheme of things, life goes on. Body slamming a guy for yelling at your girl friend is wrong, is arguably a criminal assault, but it's not the same as then pulling a gun and kililng someone. None of these people were right but they were not all equally wrong. Their actions are not all equivalents.

That said, this woman telling the media she could park whereever she pleases isn't going to get her a lot of sympathy. She comes off as entitled. And, that's the problem - everyone is so absolutely entitled now. We've all become convinced not only that we are special but we are more special, and more deserving, than everyone else. You literally take your life in your hands every time you accidentally bump into someone. And, for those of us who spend time in big cities, we're all becoming endangered species at the rate it feels like we are being hunted.

Btw, the shooter should be in prison.
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psu_dad
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Re: These are a few more of my favorite peeves

Postby psu_dad » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:04 am

What did the deceased say to the shooter just before the gun was drawn? Did he say "Kindly mind your own bees wax." ? Did he say "I'm going to f--- you up."? I don't know, either.
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Carl Spackler
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Re: These are a few more of my favorite peeves

Postby Carl Spackler » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:30 am

This will end up in court, maybe not this week but someone one will sue some other before its over. An ambulance chaser will see to it if no one else will. I just finished my CCW training and while each state had its own laws the court is the one certain issue in each state. If you shoot someone you WILL have to prove they were a threat, Castle Doctrine or not. It's never as easy as the media invents it into as their aberration to actual facts wander into fantasy land. Real world, lawsuit time is coming. :shock:
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tempe
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Re: These are a few more of my favorite peeves

Postby tempe » Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:25 am

well when you got the sheriff saying no big deal and a law that was tested before - and race.

Just seems wrong someone can go looking for a fight - start a fight - and when losing, pull out a gun and kill. Personally, someone pulled a gun one me - I would quickly back off.

Even in the wild west days - you did not shoot an unarmed man. Checkout Gunsmoke radio or TV version.

Dude should be in jail.