2017-18 baseball off season

Blue&White
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Re: 2017-18 baseball off season

Postby Blue&White » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:59 pm

Hard to believe Mets fans once talked about Harvey the way they talked about Tom Seaver. Before the injuries starting piling up he was one of the best pitchers I personally ever saw. He was magic. Shame.
#Emmertknew

psu_dad
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Re: 2017-18 baseball off season

Postby psu_dad » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:48 pm

Hard to believe Mets fans once talked about Harvey the way they talked about Tom Seaver.

Scientists have a word for that: meshugena

Seaver was already a stud at 22 and by 23 had more wins than Harvey has had his entire career, One 13-win season doesn't make you Tom Seaver. It doesn't even make you Rick Porcello.
Fire Alex Cora.

Blue&White
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Re: 2017-18 baseball off season

Postby Blue&White » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:00 pm

That's funny. I guess my grandparents were scientists. Who knew?

And, Harvey played on some very bad teams before he got hurt. He lost a lot of 1 and 2 run games. His first couple of years he looked as good as anyone who ever played the game. He was throwing in the high 90s with good movement. His first full season in the Bigs, 2013, he put up Seaver type numbers before he got hurt. He didn't throw the number of innings seaver threw, but at the time he got hurt he had almost 200Ks against about 30 walks. His K/9 was 9.6, a ratio that Seaver never hit (his best was 9.1). Harvey's WHIP when he went down was under 1 and also at a number that Seaver never hit.

Harvey is not Seaver. He couldn't sustain it for a full season, much less a 20 year career. But, for the 5 months he was healthy in 2013, it was not unrealistic to make those comparisons. The guy is a shell of what he was when he came up. Kind of a pity to see talent like that fall apart due to injury. I'd feel worse about it if the guy wasn't such a douchebag.
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psu_dad
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Re: 2017-18 baseball off season

Postby psu_dad » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:07 pm

Let's be serious. If Matt Harvey had the exact same career for the San Diego Padres, most people would have no idea who he was.

In Tim Wakefield's first year with the Red Sox, he started the season with a 4-month stretch in which he was un-hittable. He was 14-1 with an ERA of 1.65 ERA after 17 starts. That didn't justify comparisons to Bob Gibson.
Fire Alex Cora.

Blue&White
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Re: 2017-18 baseball off season

Postby Blue&White » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:19 pm

Wakefield threw a knuckleball. Not really the same thing. As for your Padres comment, I don't think notoriety is really the point. Harvey was that good when he came up, regardless of whether or not people knew about it.

It's a moot point. He's had two major surgeries now and it seems unlikely he will ever be the same. He may work back to being a decent middle-of-the-rotation guy, but I doubt his ceiling is much higher than that at this point. Reminds me a bit of Mark Prior of the Cubs. That guy came up and lit the world on fire. He threw a ton of strikes and not that many walks for a big fastball pitcher. In 2003 he struck out 245 batters and walked 50. His K/9 was 10.4. That was also the only year he pitched 200+ innings. He never got higher than 166 again. He was done by the time he was 25. Just couldn't stay healthy.
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Blue&White
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Re: 2017-18 baseball off season

Postby Blue&White » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:39 pm

psu_dad wrote:I still can't wrap my mind around the fact that the NY Yankees have hired a manager who:

(1) Has zero managing (or even coaching) experience, and
(2) Is married to a former Playboy Playmate whose "goodies" can be perused by anyone who wishes to peruse them.

It's a new world.


Forgot to mention this: so, last night I was bored and decided to follow dad's recommendation of perusing Aaron Boone's wife's goodies. I had no idea who she was prior to looking her up and, now that I have, all I can say is "Yowza!". I don't know how he has the energy to leave the house, much less manage a major league baseball team.
#Emmertknew

Blue&White
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Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: 2017-18 baseball off season

Postby Blue&White » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Marlins traded Marcell Ozuna to the Cardinals. They are shaping up to field a AAA team this coming April. I hope they are getting some really top end prospects for all these guys because they are taking the talent they did have and just shipping it off.

Marlins fans must be loving the new ownership group about now.
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sameoldlama
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Re: 2017-18 baseball off season

Postby sameoldlama » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:30 pm

You guys know I have to watch your exchange regarding Harvey and reconcile the fact the Orioles consider acquiring him as the lynchpin to shoring up their starting rotation to allow them to compete with the Yankees and Red Sox.
Wendall : That's very linear Sheriff
Ed Tom : Age will flatten a man Wendall

Blue&White
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Re: 2017-18 baseball off season

Postby Blue&White » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:42 pm

The problem with Harvey is current data says he has no value but he has incredible upside. So, if you can get the Mets to part with him for a low cost, it's worth the roughly $5.5M (I'm assuming that is his arb number) on the flier. In baseball economics that is not a big number. If he bounces back, it could be well worth it. Even if you're not competitive, a healthy, resurgent Harvey is a great trade chip to have come July.

Lady or the Tiger? What's behind the door in terms of what Harvey will give you? No one knows. Not the Mets. Not anyone. The challenge is will anyone give the Mets anything that gives them an incentive to give up the upside? I doubt it. The Mets would probably trade him for a decent middle reliever, but who is going to give up a decent bullpen arm for an unknown, high ceiling guy like Harvey? So far, no one. The returns that I've read about did not sound like they were worth it. Alderson isn't going to give him away for nothing.

I will be very surprised if Harvey is not a Met come opening day. I think teams, including the Mets, are going to wait and see what is what with him. I don't see any evidence the Mets are going to be even a .500 team this coming year. They are probably hoping Harvey has a bounce back year so they can trade him for something.
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psu_dad
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Re: 2017-18 baseball off season

Postby psu_dad » Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:58 pm

I was bored and decided to follow dad's recommendation of perusing Aaron Boone's wife's goodies.

I want it entered into the record that I didn't "recommend" people do that, I said that people can do that, not that people should do that.
Fire Alex Cora.