Politics

Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:43 pm

The irony of his complaints is there are plenty of "foreign" cars built here in the US. BMW is heavily invested in the US market. But, you'd never know that listening to Trump.

Maybe he knows something I don't but it seems really odd we are cozying up with countries that despise us and pissing off allies and partners.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

LioninVa
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Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:52 pm

_dad, I realize the workforce in Mexico earns a fraction of their counterparts here. That is one reason so many want to come her, I assume. But that is a different discussion. The number of labor jobs in manufacturing would still be lower here as a result of technology. Maybe not as low as it is now, but nowhere near where it was in 79. Still, many cars are made here just the same.

Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:05 pm

Automation is a bigger threat to our workforce than foreign labor. Much bigger. Coal mining jobs, steal manufacturing jobs, car manufacturing jobs - most of those jobs are going the way of the Dodo. Along with cashiers, truck drivers, and even a lot of engineering type jobs. We are rapidly heading towards a society where the job market is going to change dramatically. Telling people they can still be coal miners or build cars is really doing them a disservice. Whether or not we mine coal or manufacture steal, the number of human beings we need to do that are greatly reduced from where they once where. The owners of coal mines and steal mills are probably doing fantastic under Trump. But, their employees? Far less so.

It's a problem. I have no idea what the solution is. But, as the father of 2 high school age kids, I really worry about their future and their ability to provide for themselves.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

tempe
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Re: Politics

Postby tempe » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:32 pm

Lion, here de rats:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/21/opin ... rants.html

and BW - you got right about automation. Read Sapiens and Homo Deus.

Crowbar
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Re: Politics

Postby Crowbar » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:26 pm

Trump's heavy handed tactics against the immigrants is reprehensible. But comparing this to Nazi concentration camps is also out of line, to put it nicely.

If they want to compare it to Japanese internment camps, that would be a more accurate comparison.
41-33.

psu_dad
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Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:48 pm

But comparing this to Nazi concentration camps is also out of line, to put it nicely.

It's grotesque, to put it bluntly.
Fire Alex Cora. (On hold pending further review)

Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:58 pm

It's grotesque, to put it bluntly.

Agree. I'm getting really tired of the Nazi and Hitler comparisons. I thought ripping those kids from their parents like that was immoral but it wasn't on level with what the Nazis did. It wasn't close. The conditions were not perfect but they did not reach the level of depravity of Dachau. The insinuation that these were equivalents is repugnant. People need to get a grip and a reality check.

Nazi imagery and metaphors are thrown out far too casually. It was grotesque when it was done about Obama and it's grotesque now. And, as someone who has large portions of his family tree come to an end in those camps, I'm really disgusted by the casual comparisons. Especially from people who really should know better.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

Carl Spackler
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Re: Politics

Postby Carl Spackler » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:54 am

Agreed, the drumbeat of accusing a person or group of being "Hitler”, "Nazi's" or invoking the ubiquitous concentration camp/ovens line is not only outrageous and tired but it has split us irreparably imo.

Vitriol and hyperbole are staples of social media and now you can hear cursing on the so called news shows. F bombs on air and worse accusations of ill will. Dad noted the old saying that an issue in question where the impetus could be incompetence or malice, chose incompetence generally. Malice is not a standard, or wasn't but seems to be gaining steam, sadly.

Us vs they is set in concrete. It's an outright stall vs the other party in power attempting to reverse their power advantage by stalling, slow walking, hiding, falsely accusing (the worst in my book, at least personally) and vilification or the group across the aisle. POwer changes in a election, sides reverse positions and repeat.

The late Charles Krauthammer was noted as respected by both sides and that appeared to be true in life, not only in eulogies. His comments were not attacking other personally but put forth ideas which he would debate. I'm not a big fan of debate yet recognize it as an art form some excel in so well as to sway large groups with the silver tongue they possess. I did it once or twice in my career but I'm not professional like Charles K. and many others. We seem to have lost that agree to disagree in these times and that is sad. There appears to be a thought process of denigrating the opponent instead of taking on their ideas and expressed thoughts. We don't all clearly express our thoughts and misrepresent what we want to say at times, at least I do. Heck I'm amazed at my typo's in general. Too much violence in word and deed, too much instant anger, too much vilification and instant denigration facilitated through a prism of snap judgement and on it goes. Tolerance is a lost art which too few are searching to reestablish. :(
"
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sameoldlama
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Re: Politics

Postby sameoldlama » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:35 pm

In regards to the border issue, I think we all would agree this has been a problem, decades in the making. The numbers

Estimated 11.3MM persons living in US illegally
> that ranks behind only NYC and LA metro areas
> that number ranks higher than 43 states

Estimated 40 - 50,000 illegal crossing per month
> 20% of those being families
> 44M last year were unaccompanied minors

Ignoring the problem for decades has led to a situation that is nearly unmanageable and it's also conditioned people to view illegal entry as a viable option. As we see again and again - when the potential rewards outweigh the consequence for undesirable behavior expecting people to follow the desired behavior (legal immigration) which is more time consuming and difficult will not be the norm.

In the product development world costs, time and quality are competing entities - we usually say you can have two but you can't have them all. You have a mess on your hands at Southern border. The first thing you need to do is contain the problem - I'd say we would all agree that timely processing is paramount as is quality vetting and processing. So short term you just have to bite the bullet on costs and put the needed resources in place. While that is being implemented you can begin looking at more optimal methods to process detainees in terms on speed and accuracy to better control cost while maintaining a reasonable level on your other two planks. Long term you need legislation that finally addresses the weaknesses in the application process and you also must put in place measures which drive people to follow the desired behavior and deter illegal entry. And this includes dealing with the people currently residing in the US illegally.

Look at the numbers above and clearly having more sanctuary cities are no more the answer than trying to stop 50M people at the border a month or rounding up 11.3MM people.
Wendall : That's very linear Sheriff
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psu_dad
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Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:58 pm

Look at the numbers above and clearly having more sanctuary cities are no more the answer than trying to stop 50M people at the border a month or rounding up 11.3MM people.

Apparently having more sanctuary cities is the answer to the people who support sanctuary cities. Clearly the very existence of such places implies a total disregard for immigration law and/or borders. And I suspect they will vigorously oppose any and all efforts to secure the border.

I'm sticking with my predictions that (1) When the federal courts set fire to his executive order, Trump will retreat to the same policy the previous POTUS implemented, i.e. simply deporting everyone caught entering illegally ASAP ... and (2) that the MSM will shamelessly crucify him for it as if he invented the policy after reading Mein Kampf... and (3) Congress will do squat.
Fire Alex Cora. (On hold pending further review)