Politics

Nat@PSU
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:56 pm

Re: Politics

Postby Nat@PSU » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:55 am

There is speculation that Trump named a relative nobody in the legal world (Cohen) as his personal attorney to retroactively protect any information Cohen had with regards to Trump Inc. business dealings. Just listened to a podcast that outlined Cohen's history. It is interesting to say the least.

In the same podcast, they covered how the Trump Organization is involved in a number of lawsuits against local governments over the assessment of Trump properties and the taxes their owed. For example, a golf course in NJ that Trump valued at $50Mil on his financial disclosure forms is valued at $15 Mill by the local government for tax purposes. The Trump organization is suing them saying the property is only worth $1.85 Million. A fraud and a grifter through and through. This is one of many similar lawsuits. For example, in Chicago, the Trump Organization is litigating in the hopes of valuing the unfilled retail space in the Trump Tower there at a negative value. Meanwhile, the President has not divested from these organizations so state, municipalities, etc, don't ever know if they're interacting with Trump the businessman or Trump the President.

I, obviously, disagree with llama's assessment of much of Trump's policy decisions. I think that many of these decisions will have long standing consequences for a wide swath of America. Trump hasn't drained the swamp. He is the swamp.
- Nat

Let's Go State!!

Blue&White
Posts: 2225
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:15 am

Cohen has not yet been charged, near as I can tell. I read that he can be facing potentially life in prison, but I find that tough to believe. No one died. He isn't accused of drug smuggling or human trafficking. There is no rape or capital crime here. It sounds like it's wire fraud and tax evasion. And yet yesterday Alan Dershowitz, who seems to be advising Trump now, was predicting that the Feds are going to threaten him with life imprisonment to get him flip and give evidence against Trump.

Something doesn't make sense in all of this. They got a no-knock warrant that went through a federal magistrate after an application from the US Attorney from the Southern District of NY, a recent Trump appointee. So, this is not "deep state" partisan politics here. but after they got that warrant from a federal magistrate, no charges have been filed (yet). It's not even clear what they were looking for exactly.

It may be more accurate to say that there is not enough information public to make sense of all this vs. it doesn't make sense. I'm sure it makes sense to someone. I'm just going to grab some popcorn and enjoy the show.

Nat - I think I posted a link to an article in the last 2 weeks bout the property tax assessments and the problems these municipalities have. It's disgusting. Agree with you that he is the swamp. Did you see the moron he wants to appoint to run NASA? So much for having The Right Stuff. This guy couldn't pass a 3rd grade science class.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

LioninVa
Posts: 562
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:58 am

I am no fan of this president, but I am not as vocal as some out there. I am under the impression that the hearing that outed Hannity also got a provision to get a group of federal agents that are separate from the Mueller team to go over all of the files taken in the raid on Cohen and make sure only pertinent ones get used in the investigation. I heard this was a normal or common check and balance type thing, but have never heard of it before (not that I should have, of course).

I read something that one of Trumps old lawyers who retired years ago said that Cohen will flip and sing like a bird (my words, not his) if Muller charges him. The old lawyer basically said that anyone facing 30 years or more in prison in a case like this is ripe to turn states evidence. While I have little experience with the legal system, I had to accompany my oldest on a visit to the judge recently and he told me that hearing his name over the big voice in the ceiling calling him into the courtroom scared the emmert out of him. My only response was, "Good!"

Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:21 am

I am under the impression that the hearing that outed Hannity also got a provision to get a group of federal agents that are separate from the Mueller team to go over all of the files taken in the raid on Cohen and make sure only pertinent ones get used in the investigation

Just to be clear - the Mueller team had nothing to do with this. They came upon some information that they felt was otuside of their remit so they presented it to the Justice Department who investigated whatever it was and acted on their own. There is an effort underway to get an independent team to review the files to preserve privilege - which is standard when going after an attorney - but it has nothing to do with Muehler.

You're not the only one to make this mistake and I don't think that's an accident. A lot of effort is going on to make this look like it's part of the "runaway" special counsel. It's not. This was the US Attorney for the Southern District of New York, a recent Trump appointee, who authorized taking this to a federal magistrate for a warrant.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

Nat@PSU
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:56 pm

Re: Politics

Postby Nat@PSU » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:31 am

LioninVA,

My understanding is that this is something called a "taint team" and is fairly standard practice. It is intended to serve as a firewall that makes sure only pertinent information gets to the investigators within the scope of what was referenced in the warrant. Again, my understanding is that it is common practice, particularly when seizing information from a lawyer where the concern of attorney client privilege is in question (again, attorney client privilege doesn't survive if the lawyer is found to have engaged in illegal behavior)

While this is through the Southern District of New York I believe the initial info came from Mueller's team. I may be wrong on that.
- Nat

Let's Go State!!

sameoldlama
Posts: 568
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:43 am

Re: Politics

Postby sameoldlama » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:39 am

And this has what to do with the original reason Mueller was impaneled? Nothing. As I said Mueller was given an army of lawyers / investigators, a bottomless well of cash and 4 years to get something to get Trump out. And if you applied that standard to every mega-rich person and politician in the land then you better start building more jails.

Trump is being made an example of because of his odious personality, his unwillingness to play the Washington go along - get along game (not out of ethical principal but out of ego) and he is unpredictable.

Every person of means and every business entity out there does everything they can do to maximize their assets and minimize liabilities (which is what taxes are viewed as by every accountant and lawyer in the land). They have an obligation to do this in the interest of their owners and stakeholders and to do so with in the most favorable manner they can work within the law as possible.

And this is where the hypocrisy come in - when DT does the same thing so many of his critics do he is the personification of evil while the publicly virtue signaling entities get a pass.

How many virtue signaling Jersey entertainers planted a few apple trees and had their estates designated as farms to get property tax reductions? Don't recall any movements to put them in jail.
The left leaning Tech companies that promote the government enact redistributive economic policies and then move their HQs to Ireland for tax purposes. But hey we love our gadgets so they're cool.
How many public unions / private businesses / wealthy individuals basically bribe politicians via campaign funding for favorable legislation that puts dollars in their or their members pockets? They sure got a swamp smell on them.
And best of all - our legislators who solicit those funds and right after leaving office walk into those company and become lobbyists to keep that same cash flow going. Don't think Trump invented that program.

And I could break the bandwidth of the Internet outlining the damage the policies / ethos that the progressive left has wrought on our society.

Said this a long, long time ago here ...... Nobody wants fair - they want bias and they want it to favor them.
Wendall : That's very linear Sheriff
Ed Tom : Age will flatten a man Wendall

Nat@PSU
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:56 pm

Re: Politics

Postby Nat@PSU » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:51 am

sameoldlama wrote:How many virtue signaling Jersey entertainers planted a few apple trees and had their estates designated as farms to get property tax reductions? Don't recall any movements to put them in jail.
The left leaning Tech companies that promote the government enact redistributive economic policies and then move their HQs to Ireland for tax purposes. But hey we love our gadgets so they're cool.
How many public unions / private businesses / wealthy individuals basically bribe politicians via campaign funding for favorable legislation that puts dollars in their or their members pockets? They sure got a swamp smell on them.
And best of all - our legislators who solicit those funds and right after leaving office walk into those company and become lobbyists to keep that same cash flow going. Don't think Trump invented that program.




I don't have much of a problem with this, but it seems odd to me that you categorize DT as someone who is pointing out the hypocrisy rather than a full and willing participant in that hypocrisy.

He has engaged in exactly as much "virtue signaling" as anyone else. Drain the swamp? Get rid of lobbying influence? This administration is as swampy and unethical as any I've seen in my lifetime. Why does he get a pass on that?
- Nat

Let's Go State!!

tempe
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:54 pm

Re: Politics

Postby tempe » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:57 pm

Sounds like Kimba Wood did everything right:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/18/nyre ... -wood.html

"In 1993, after five years on the bench, she was considered for United States attorney general by President Bill Clinton after an earlier nominee, Zoë Baird, was found to have hired undocumented immigrants as nannies and failed to pay their taxes. But Judge Wood was asked to withdraw her name after telling White House screeners that she was sponsoring her own nanny for a green card — which was legal then — and that she had paid all the necessary taxes.

“I have fulfilled every legal requirement with respect to the employment of our babysitter,” she said in a statement at the time. “Nevertheless, and after further consultations, I have concluded that in the current political environment, proceeding further with the possibility of my nomination would be inappropriate.”'

Blue&White
Posts: 2225
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:13 pm

And this has what to do with the original reason Mueller was impaneled? Nothing. As I said Mueller was given an army of lawyers / investigators, a bottomless well of cash and 4 years to get something to get Trump out. And if you applied that standard to every mega-rich person and politician in the land then you better start building more jails.

Two thoughts:
1. bull
2. shit

Mueller and his team didn't do this. They came across information about potential criminal activity during their investigation, assessed that it had nothing to do with what they were impaneled to look at, and handed it over to the FBI. What where they supposed to do? Shrug and move on? It was the US Attorney General for the Southern District of New York, who was put in that position by Trump TYVM, who concluded there was sufficient evidence to not only act upon but to go to a federal magistrate and ask for a "no knock" warrant to ensure evidence was not destroyed once they hit the first location. And, the idea that every mega-rich person, or their lawyers, would be subject to this type of criminal investigation if only someone cared to investigate them is ridiculous. You can't seriously believe that every single person in a certain tax bracket - and their attorneys - are actually just felons who buy their way out of FBI investigations. And no one talks about this because they are rich. I'm fairly cynical but that's not cynical - it's paranoid delusional is what that is. I'm not sure what Cohen did or didn't do, but an independent Federal Magistrate isn't signing a warrant that is now open to legal, and eventually public, scrutiny, because of some deep state conspiracy theory.

As for the idea that everyone is doing it so it's ok if Trump does it - more bull shit. Municipalities getting screwed by rich people who challenge tax assessments is not a new thing. Bill Gates made headlines years ago over this. There is nothing wrong with using Trump as an example to highlight the problem. And, the idea that he still maintains his business ownership and is arguably using his position to bully these municipalities is egregious. when DC Comics had Lex Luther elected as President, he divested himself of all holdings in LexCorp. Trump is literally less ethical than a comic book villain.

And, if Hillary had been elected and had been pulling half of this, I am positive you would not be defending any of it on the basis of hypocrisy. The idea that this is ok and should be ignored because other people do bad things is ridiculous. It is the logical fallacy of Tu Quoque (for you Latin geeks). It translates roughly to "other bad acts". Frankly, I see a few red herrings in your argument as well.

What other people do isn't a defense against complaints and commentary about the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES doing it. He's not a celebrity doing these things. He's not some famous guy or some rich guy. He is the chief law enforcement officer in the country. He is responsible for the economy and tax collection. Calling him out on his bullshit is ok, even if you ignored when some actor bought an apple farm in NJ for a tax break. The entire idea that it isn't is absurd.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

psu_dad
Posts: 1528
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:28 pm

I have two ornamental cherry trees. Can I declare my property an orchard and get a property tax reduction? I'll wear bib overalls and buy a pitchfork if that will help.
Fire Alex Cora. (On hold pending further review)