Politics

psu_dad
Posts: 1753
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Wed May 16, 2018 10:48 am

don't pretend that this debate is really about legal vs. illegal immigration because it's clearly not.

I'm not pretending. I refuse to acknowledge there's no difference between an illegal immigrant and a legal one. I don't care if they came from Kathmandu, London or Alpha Centauri . If they came here without permission, they should be treated the same as a person who takes up residence in your home without permission. And I'm not responsible for the hidden agendas of others.
Fire Alex Cora. (On hold pending further review)

sameoldlama
Posts: 671
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:43 am

Re: Politics

Postby sameoldlama » Wed May 16, 2018 3:30 pm

So we should revisit the 2nd amendment because as written it is not relevant / practical for the modern era but we should use what a Frenchman carved into a statue and over a century old immigration practices as a template for modern day policy. :?

I've posted this before but having a coherent and well managed immigration policy is necessary to have a sustainable immigration policy. Evaluating and vetting according to factors related to a potential immigrants ability to assimilate, support system that may already exist in USA, possible threat (criminal, terror), health (communicable disease) as well as for compassionate reasons (political asylum, fleeing war / famine / persecution).

Europe's belly flop into poorly controlled mass immigration from Middle Eastern countries has resulted in severe social consequences. These consequences are most generally visited on the lower income strata of society in the form of crime, competition for employment / depressed wages and competition for social services (housing / medical care / food supplementation).

There is nothing racist, bigoted or xenophobic about wanting to have a well thought out, rationale immigration policy that you actually enforce. It's actually good governance.
Wendall : That's very linear Sheriff
Ed Tom : Age will flatten a man Wendall

psu_dad
Posts: 1753
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Wed May 16, 2018 4:05 pm

Back in 1914, an architect who designed a NYC Post Office had the following engraved above the entrance: Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds. But when we get 2 feet of snow, I don't get my mail. And a few months ago when an important package didn't arrived the day it was scheduled to arrive, I called the local P.O. and was told the carrier had a large amount of mail and couldn't complete all the deliveries. So I'd get it the next day. So much for the gloom of night.

Go figure.
Fire Alex Cora. (On hold pending further review)

Blue&White
Posts: 2676
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Wed May 16, 2018 7:33 pm

I've posted this before but having a coherent and well managed immigration policy is necessary to have a sustainable immigration policy. Evaluating and vetting according to factors related to a potential immigrants ability to assimilate, support system that may already exist in USA, possible threat (criminal, terror), health (communicable disease) as well as for compassionate reasons (political asylum, fleeing war / famine / persecution).

Show me where I said anything contrary to that. Where anyone said anything contrary to that or argued that. I think the vast majority of people in this country (clearly not all) would agree on the idea of having a coherent and enforceable immigration policy that focuses on bringing in people who can contribute to our society and not be sucking at the tax payer teat. I agree that there is nothing racist, bigoted or xenophobic about wanting to have a well thought out, rationale immigration policy that you actually enforce. What is racist, bigoted and xenophobic is a policy that is based on race, religion, and keeping people out unless they speak English and are generally white. What we've seen from the Trump administration is anything but what you're describing. The recent comments from Kelly about the type of people who come here illegally not having skills and not being able to become part of our society is in direct contradiction to the experience of many Americans and a slap in the face to our family members who made the leap to come here. You want to say we need to have laws and a policy, that's one thing. But, that is not what was said..

Kicking out the DACA kids, who came here when they were children, who are, by and large, contributors to our society and have grown up here does not serve a legitimate purpose. You have one who committed a crime? Sure, kick him or her out. But, some of this is stupid. They have been kicking out people who have been her for 40 years who's legal status was messed up usually over paperwork snafus. Not all of them, bu throwing out people who have built lives here and are part of their community, who own businesses and create jobs, does not serve a legitimate purpose.

As for you comment regarding letting people in for compassionate reasons, it's too laughable to respond to. There is zero compassion from this administration. Separating 4 year old children from their mothers serves zero legitimate purposes. It's immoral and it's tyrannical. I get they are trying to dissuade people from coming in illegally. How desperate do you think you have to be to come in illegally with these assholes in charge? You're going to take a person like that, who hasn't committed any crime beyond crossing a line on a map, and imprison their children away from them? I

I'm embarrassed by what we are becoming and what is being done in our name. And, none of this meets up to the proposition you stated in your post.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

Blue&White
Posts: 2676
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Thu May 17, 2018 10:26 am

Anyone see the story that around the time Trump decided to help Chinese firm ZTE China invested $500,000,000 into a Trump property in Indonesia? Both events happened within 72 hours of each other.

I guess that's what draining the swamp looks like.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

Nat@PSU
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:56 pm

Re: Politics

Postby Nat@PSU » Mon May 21, 2018 7:42 am

"I hereby demand, and will do so officially tomorrow, that the Department of Justice look into whether or not the FBI/DOJ infiltrated or surveilled the Trump Campaign for Political Purposes - and if any such demands or requests were made by people within the Obama Administration!"

So . . . this is pretty crazy.

I'm trying not to have knee jerk reactions to these things and generally have faith in our institutions, but even to the most ardent of President Trump agnostics (looking at you psu_dad) this has to seem a bit crazy right? Right?

For a "law and order" guy I don't think he knows a whole hell of a lot about law and order. To be frank, I don't think he knows a whole hell of a lot about a a whole hell of a lot, but that's neither here nor there.
- Nat

Let's Go State!!

Blue&White
Posts: 2676
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Mon May 21, 2018 7:52 am

I hope the DoJ does exactly what he asks and does it with complete and total transparency. If it's true, let's find out. And, in the much more likely scenario he made this up, let's know that, too.

Not doing this gives him something to hide behind. I want them to take away the nonsense and the excuses. When all that is stripped away then all that is left is this inept con artist exposed to the world.

So, sure, let's have an investigation.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

sameoldlama
Posts: 671
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:43 am

Re: Politics

Postby sameoldlama » Mon May 21, 2018 1:41 pm

Blue&White wrote:I've posted this before but having a coherent and well managed immigration policy is necessary to have a sustainable immigration policy. Evaluating and vetting according to factors related to a potential immigrants ability to assimilate, support system that may already exist in USA, possible threat (criminal, terror), health (communicable disease) as well as for compassionate reasons (political asylum, fleeing war / famine / persecution).

Show me where I said anything contrary to that. Where anyone said anything contrary to that or argued that. I think the vast majority of people in this country (clearly not all) would agree on the idea of having a coherent and enforceable immigration policy that focuses on bringing in people who can contribute to our society and not be sucking at the tax payer teat. I agree that there is nothing racist, bigoted or xenophobic about wanting to have a well thought out, rationale immigration policy that you actually enforce. What is racist, bigoted and xenophobic is a policy that is based on race, religion, and keeping people out unless they speak English and are generally white. What we've seen from the Trump administration is anything but what you're describing. The recent comments from Kelly about the type of people who come here illegally not having skills and not being able to become part of our society is in direct contradiction to the experience of many Americans and a slap in the face to our family members who made the leap to come here. You want to say we need to have laws and a policy, that's one thing. But, that is not what was said..

Kicking out the DACA kids, who came here when they were children, who are, by and large, contributors to our society and have grown up here does not serve a legitimate purpose. You have one who committed a crime? Sure, kick him or her out. But, some of this is stupid. They have been kicking out people who have been her for 40 years who's legal status was messed up usually over paperwork snafus. Not all of them, bu throwing out people who have built lives here and are part of their community, who own businesses and create jobs, does not serve a legitimate purpose.

As for you comment regarding letting people in for compassionate reasons, it's too laughable to respond to. There is zero compassion from this administration. Separating 4 year old children from their mothers serves zero legitimate purposes. It's immoral and it's tyrannical. I get they are trying to dissuade people from coming in illegally. How desperate do you think you have to be to come in illegally with these assholes in charge? You're going to take a person like that, who hasn't committed any crime beyond crossing a line on a map, and imprison their children away from them? I

I'm embarrassed by what we are becoming and what is being done in our name. And, none of this meets up to the proposition you stated in your post.


Sorry but your zealousness to hate everything Trump has compromised your objectivity. Trump has not authored any immigration policy and has simply enforced existing policy. But Sweden seems to be on board with your readiness to abandon reality in favor of guilt driven emotion - do some research on how well it's working out for them. Expecting someone wishing to enter your country to obey the law is a reasonable thing to expect. And once they have entered the country they shouldn't expect the rest of society to reflect the place they fled.

Hopefully you haven't jumped the shark to the point Democrats did this weekend when in their never ending pursuit of attacking everything Trump ever says ended up espousing the inherent awesomeness of MS13 gang members. I thought the media couldn't drop lower than when Trump was mocked after the three guys were released from North Korea - but man they followed it up with cuddles for MS13.

And by the way - enforcing your laws - and applying them fairly and evenly - always has purpose - it's called justice and it is what the country was founded upon.
Wendall : That's very linear Sheriff
Ed Tom : Age will flatten a man Wendall

Nat@PSU
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:56 pm

Re: Politics

Postby Nat@PSU » Mon May 21, 2018 3:36 pm

sameoldlama wrote:And by the way - enforcing your laws - and applying them fairly and evenly - always has purpose - it's called justice and it is what the country was founded upon.



Justice: just behavior or treatment.
"a concern for justice, peace, and genuine respect for people"
synonyms: fairness, justness, fair play, fair-mindedness, equity, evenhandedness, impartiality, objectivity, neutrality, honesty, righteousness, morals, morality


Which of these synonyms would you say most aptly describe the Trump Administration?

To reply to the MS-13 comments, I think this sums my view up well: https://twitter.com/PodSaveAmerica/stat ... 0083461120
- Nat

Let's Go State!!

Blue&White
Posts: 2676
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Mon May 21, 2018 9:50 pm

And by the way - enforcing your laws - and applying them fairly and evenly - always has purpose - it's called justice and it is what the country was founded upon.

Please don't forget to wake me when we start enforcing and applying our laws fairly and evenly. I wouldn't want to miss that.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?