Politics

psu_dad
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:03 am

I believe that's backwards. His rhetoric didn't lead us to war. His determination to invade Iraq led to the rhetoric.

tempe
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:54 pm

Re: Politics

Postby tempe » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:01 am

Glad to see the term “rhetoric” employed here. Very fitting. I would say that more often than not rhetoric does draw a clear cause/effect sequence of events. Take something like advertisement – tons of rhetoric there – but of course, one does not see a car advertisement and run out and buy a car – one does not see a jean or beer or basically any advertisement and run out and buy. But that is not how rhetoric works in most cases. What this type of rhetoric does – what advertisers and politicians want rhetoric to do – is leave an impression - to have an effect on the values, ethics, desires, beliefs, fears and so on of a person or group. So when asked for a specific example – there are probably few to really call upon. But there is little question that collective statements and slogans – “Beef – it’s what for dinner” or “Make America Great Again” play on values, beliefs, ethics and all the stuff mentioned. Think of how one might refer to someone’s “posture.” It is a collective – a totality that constructs. I think there is little question that Trump’s rhetoric has had a considerable impact on the way much of the world views the United States (and Trump). There are countless articles filling the news that speak in earnest to this concept. But to say – name one thing – to ask for a direct cause/effect in misunderstanding rhetoric beyond the version offered through a single speech or essay. (This is not to say that a speech or essay lack powerful and moving rhetoric).

I like to use advertisement as an example because it is so easy to see. It is objective and measurable. For example, banks/credit card companies changed the way Americans viewed financial transactions basically overnight with a few ad campaigns. I remember the one during the Super Bowl. Everyone football fan was buying crap with a credit card and then some guy comes up to pay for tennis balls in a pink sweater – with cash – and the party stops – everyone stares. There was a time when I would never pay for for coffee with a credit - now it is the only way. The social ethic changed almost overnight. It’s all the same = sports figures worry plenty about losing endorsements. Plenty of that going on. My point here is that the “Name one thing” question really fails to understand the dynamic of rhetoric – it is simply not that direct. And actually, I can not think of a better example than Trump to showcase the powerful and impact of collective POTUS rhetoric. Here, rhetoric is best understood as the collective - and that is powerful rhetoric.

I guess I could get started on “fear rhetoric" - that is a powerful tool!

Blue&White
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:38 am

Tempe makes an excellent point. And, I think it also highlights why the Iraq invasion example is a good one. The desire to invade may have lead to the rhetoric, but it was the rhetoric that convinced people, not all at once but over weeks, that the US should commit to an illegal war and send soldiers to fight, and some to die, fighting a country that had done nothing to us.

LioninVa
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:17 am

Because I am a democrat, my brother believes that I am a bleeding heart liberal. The same brother who told me, during the early stages of Desert Shield, that he would flee to Canada if the draft started again while I was visiting over the weekend on Navy leave. While I have some liberal beliefs, I also feel the GOP has some valid points. I choose to look at both sides and make what decision makes the most sense to me. I remember being home at my dad's house at some point after we went into Afghanistan but before Iraq. W was speaking and my dad had it on the tv. I said to him, "the president has been speaking for about a half an hour and has not mentioned America once. I lost count of how many times he said Iraq. He is trying to fool us into something here and it is working."

psu_dad
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:21 am

This conversation has drifted away from the original point. I never said that rhetoric couldn't be used in a persuasive fashion to accomplish some desired effect. It doesn't work on people from my home planet (Vulcan) but I'm sure it works on earthlings.

That wasn't what I originally addressed. I addressed that the notion that President Knucklehead's' tendency to make outrageous off-the-cuff comments was dangerous because of his position. He's not engaging in some master plan to use rhetoric to persuade people. He's just being an a-hole because that's worked for him for decades. When/if he sends 50,000 young Americans to die in some piss-ant country, then I'll change my tune about how dangerous he is.

LioninVa
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:45 am

I believe that you would submit an apology, but hope that you don't have to, _dad.

I am not, however, as optimistic as you regarding the man in the white house. Not that I am implying you are a fan...

psu_dad
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:23 am

I placed a write-in vote for my Boxer, but her campaign didn't gain much traction. She could have been the first female president. And probably also the first president to take a dump on the White House lawn, although I'm not 100% sure.

Blue&White
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:33 am

Why is he still talking about the NFL? I mean, is telling Americans how and when they can protest really something the President of the United States - no matter who holds the office - should be doing? And, as a secondary point, is that something he really has time for?

psu_dad
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:47 am

Some of those meetings he has to attend are probably boring. Maybe he passes the time tweeting and playing Angry Birds on his iPhone.

Shore Lion
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: Politics

Postby Shore Lion » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:01 pm

He has to distract from the many promises he made that aren't getting done. Nothing like a good flag controversy to incense the American people and yet absolutely nothing will happen. We love to get mad. But we also love to not do anything. People make a lot of money on the bitching about something; on the solution not so much.