Politics

Blue&White
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:39 am

I doubt it's been misrepresented by the family or the Congresswoman. I really do. I also doubt that Trump intentionally was a douchebag to them. The problem is that he's just a man who lacks empathy. Love him, hate him, it's hard to deny that he is not an empathetic person and offering consolation to a grieving family is not his strong suit. Obama is built for things like that. Words just role off his tongue. I suspect Bush was pretty good at it too. He was not nearly as articulate as Obama was but he was definitely capable of empathy. Trump just isn't. He's built his career and his life around being a douchebag. It's hard to deny that. And, now he doesn't know how not to be. So, I have no doubt that he did pretty much what he's accused of. What I do have serious doubt about is if he meant to do it. I think he just doesn't know the difference and I bet he was genuinely surprised at the response.

As for what happened next, my guess is it was a combination of 2 things. First, I suspect this congresswoman hates Trump and that hatred overran common sense. Second, I suspect that the family really was put off by the whole thing. The family is completely backing her version of events. And, for that reason alone, Trump and his team should have backed off. I can't believe the Congresswoman thought "here is a chance to make Trump look bad by using people I know and the wife of a fallen soldier to score political points". I doubt that. I think she was somewhat sincere (or think she was) in her comments. I'm sure her sincerity is skewed by her political bent as well.

There was a very easy way out of this. All Trump had to do was say something along the lines of "My intention was to offer condolences on behalf of a grateful nation for [inset name]'s sacrifice. I sincerely hope that message was felt by the family as that is all I ever intended to convey" and be done. Drop it after that. Anything said about him after becomes petty and a pile on. But, he is absolutely incapable of doing anything close to that. He has to be right and, more important, he has to win. Now he looks like a first class schmuck. Kelly tried to do something along the lines of what I suggested, but he also had to take a dig. That really diminished the message.

The Congresswoman said yesterday she wasn't responding anymore as it wasn't about her. You can think whatever about what she did, but she was the adult and walked away. Trump, however, had to fire more shots this morning. First class schmuck.

Carl - for your complaints about how Trump is portrayed, your doing the same thing. What does her appearance and her hat have to do with anything? I don't get that.

Carl Spackler
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:22 pm

Re: Politics

Postby Carl Spackler » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:12 pm

LioninVa wrote:Carl,

The widow's mother also stated that she felt the statement was disrespectful. My best guess and hope is that this has been misinterpreted by those in the car. If you can stand to listen to the president speak for more than a few minutes, you know that he does not have any mastery of the English language. I am not trying to insult him, it is simply a fact. He does not speak in complete sentences, and he repeats words and has a flair for a few common adjectives and catch phrases. I suppose his comment could easily have been taken the wrong way.

As for the comment regarding previous presidents, I suppose the same is true. When I heard it, I assumed he was badmouthing them both.


Lion, I had not heard a report from the widow. I saw the Kelly presser and went off that since he was a direct observer although that meant he observed body language which is missing in a phone call. My point is that the msm loves to pillory the President with the fervor they protected and failed to investigate or vet the previous President. Unless we were there we will not know exactly how we would feel in the same circumstance and I believe we all want the bereaved family to receive the utmost respect and honor possible. The loss of a mate is unimaginable no matter the circumstance and to have to find out as an officer and a clergyman walks down your driveway is heartbreaking. I remember the movie "We Were Soldiers" as the colonels wife took it upon herself to deliver the messages of the death of the soldiers to the widows. Unimaginable grief.

BW, she looks like a cartoon character and speaks like a partisan clown. i would like to see the gerrymandered district she represents. Then again what politician doesn't look like a clown although she takes it to a new low. Her appearance has nothing to do with her attitude and her politicizing use of this tragedy is typical of what I would expect from a clown like she does and is. She projects her inner soul.

LioninVa
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:39 pm

Carl, I want to believe that 45 was not trying to be a jerk in his conversation but (as B-Dub stated better than I can) he doesn't know how.

However, the crux of this issue is that the president turned a simple question into something that never should have happened by calling out both 43 and 44. Again, his lack of sentence structure and staccato train of thought speaking may be part of the problem here; I don't know for sure. But he doubled down the very next day because he is simply incapable of admitting a mistake. For god's sake, he can't even say "I think you misunderstood me" for some reason.

Blue&White
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:53 pm

It is absolutely amazing we are even having this discussion. And then it comes out he promised - for whatever reason - another family $25,000 after their son was killed in action. And, it wasn't until that story was reported by, I think, WAPO that he actually paid the money. Why is he offering a single individual family money out of his own pocket? And, if he's going to do that, why not all of them? The whole thing makes no sense.

But, the real question here, and one that is barely been asked, is what the heck were combat soldiers doing in freaking Niger? Don't give me they were there as "advisors". The Green Berets are not consultants. They are killing machines. They are combat soldiers. And, these 4 men died in combat. Why were they there? Who authorized that? And, I don't mean who gave the order. I mean where was the legal authorization for the United States to put combat troops in Niger? And why isn't the press asking that question with the same fervor they are reporting that Trump lacks empathy?

Scratch that last one. I know the answer to that question.

LioninVa
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:25 pm

They are starting to ask that question. What I have found is that they have been advising (I know, you don't buy that - either do I) troops in combating Boko Harem. Now, a few weeks ago, 45 comes out with his latest list immigration ban and it includes Chad (I think), which is an ally in the previously mentioned fight. Oddly, after being banned from coming to the promised land for no good reason, Chad pulls all of its troops back home from Niger. This all happened within a week or so of the attack on our troops; the ones in stock pick up trucks rather than armored personnel carriers. I also heard Blackwater was involved in this endeavor... If so, I won't be surprised if we learn that there were other less than up and up things going on.

Carl Spackler
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:22 pm

Re: Politics

Postby Carl Spackler » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:08 pm

The more we stick our noses in other countries business the more problems happen. I don't think we have a mandate to police the world, if so there are a lot of places we would need to be in order to establish justice. It's not our problem or our right to interfere. If we believe in liberty we believe in it across the board. Every country has the liberty to choose its own course. The blood of our young and the treasure of our nation continue to flow to countries outside or sphere. Time to bring them home.

Heard a couple of snippets of the bereaved widow complimenting the President on his phone call. The congresswomyn is the one condemning him, not the widow so far. There may be more but after hearing her own words I'm skeptical on the issue raised by the Florida rep.

LioninVa
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:38 pm

Carl, I believe the widow that you heard was from earlier this year. I saw several reports of supportive as well as not so supportive families.

Blue&White
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:24 pm

Heard a couple of snippets of the bereaved widow complimenting the President on his phone call.

I don't think so. She's not spoken to the public, at least not that I've seen. And I just looked again. Her mother has, though, and she confirmed the account of Congresswoman Wilson.

They claimed Trump didn't even know the soldier's name. The comments he made the day after this fiasco all started sure doesn't dissuade one from thinking that is true. His comment the next day was ""I had a very nice conversation with the woman, with the wife, who sounded like a lovely woman." Her name is Myeshia Johnson. Her husband was La David Johnson. He's not seemed to care enough about either to remember their names and say them in public. He's done nothing and said nothing to make anyone think this isn't true.

Btw, his Chief of Staff, Kelly, told a bold face lie about Wilson today. The WH, as is their habit, is standing by Kelly's comments but there is video proof that she did not say what they are claiming she said. Shame on Kelly for debasing himself that way. And, Huckabee's defense that you can't challenge a retired general? Is she kidding? Trump challenged military and ex-military constantly. He looks people who weren't captured.

I can get why people voted for him, I guess. I can't get how anyone can look at him and think "yep, this is still my guy". And, that's just on the superficial stuff. Still no answer how President "America First" had soldiers in Niger.

Crowbar
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:54 pm

Re: Politics

Postby Crowbar » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:32 pm

We have ops going on in over 100 countries. Obviously you don't hear about most of them. We have probably been in Niger for some time now, for better or worse.

I too laugh at the notion of Green Berets (and spec ops troops in general) being sent overseas to serve as "advisors."

psu_dad
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:33 pm

Maybe we should have a do-over.

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