Politics

psu_dad
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Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:26 pm

Sounds like he'd fit right in. Has he drowned any of them? What is his position on the Guam Tipping Over crisis?
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Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:04 pm

What is your point? That because Ted Kennedy was never held accountable no one else should ever be? Or is it that a valid defense to charges of child molestation is "someone else said something stupid"? For the guy who likes to claim he's totally logic driven you are awfully quick to fall for a blatant logical fallacy.

A lot of things in the past that shpuld have mattered were ignored. But, that is not a valid defense or a reason not to hold people accountable today.
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psu_dad
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Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:53 pm

My point is that all the blather over this election was never going to have a meaningful impact on the problem of abusing women. It was just political. If Jones had been the one with the baggage, the Republicans would have used the same tactics.

Were Moore to win, the men in this country who don't abuse woman weren't going to suddenly start because Alabama voters had chosen to ignore this behavior. And now that Jones has won, men in this country who DO abuse women are not going to stop because they respect the condemnation of folks in Alabama. They don't give a shit. This election only spoke to Alabama's attitudes on this matter and they have zero impact on the country at large on social issues.

BTW ...

Choctaw County
Jones: 2,273
Moore: 1,949

I told you, but you never listen.
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Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:43 am

Maybe. Maybe not.

I think Alabama electing a Democrat to the Senate because of credible, but unproven, allegations could be a big deal. I agree it likely does not change behavior but it does signal that voters are less likely to ignore that behavior.

A single event is not proof of anything, but the election of a Democrat in a very red state is a hopeful sign. Put another way, Ted Kennedy is lucky he killed that poor girl when he did, because in 2017 he may have turned Massachusetts red for at least one election.
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Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:49 am

Oh, the other relevant point is the Jones victory brings us closer to even more gridlock. After the midterms the federal government should be in a total standstill for at least 2 years, which is just spiffy from my perspective.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

LioninVa
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Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:06 am

psu_dad wrote:Anyone who thinks the rancorous "divide" in this country is a new thing is out to lunch...

if people find "government of the people, by the people, for the people" too messy, we could always go to a monarchy. It's very tidy and involves no "divisions". Everyone just does what the monarch says and shuts their pie hole.


In no way am I arguing this point. I am simply saying that there was a time, in my lifetime no less, where these elected officials would actually sit down and discuss differences an make compromises for, ideally, the better good. Now, all that matters is winning. Or, more accurately, making sure the other guy doesn’t. Maybe we are better off with gridlock and obstruction, I don’t know.

psu_dad
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Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:24 am

A single event is not proof of anything, but the election of a Democrat in a very red state is a hopeful sign.

I think there's a better chance of me hitting the lottery this week. And I didn't buy a ticket.

This is just the Scott Brown saga revisited. When MA held a special election in 2010 to replace their deceased Senator, the Democrats had the misfortune to select (Attorney General) Martha Coakley as their candidate. She may have been a competent DA (who knows), but as a political candidate she was an unmitigated disaster. Totally devoid of any warmth, wit or personality. And the Republican candidate (Brown) was the beneficiary. It did not signify a willingness of MA voters to now embrace Republicans. They' would generally prefer to embrace a leper. It just signified that Coackley turned out to be a disastrous pick, just as Moore was. And despite Brown doing a competent job, at the next election the voters of MA essentially told Brown "thanks for keeping the seat warm" and replaced him with Pocahontas ... by a landslide.

You'll see 17,000 articles in the next few days about the significance of this election and, like most political reportage, it's all BS. Moore and Jones are just Alabama's version of Coakley and Brown.
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psu_dad
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Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:37 am

in my lifetime no less, where these elected officials would actually sit down and discuss differences an make compromises for, ideally, the better good.

I have no recollections of that. I have recollections of the Republicans steamrolling the Democrats when they held the majorities in Congress ... and vice versa. I have recollections of the Republicans doing anything they could to derail/vilify a Democratic POTUS when they held minority status in Congress ... and vice versa.

Cats & dogs ... cobras & mongooses ... Republicans & Democrats. That's my recollection. Then again, I'm getting old and reaching the point where I may accidentally leave the house one day forgetting to put my pants on.

------------

PS - I do recollect soda fountains and Lime Rickeys. Damn, they were good.
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LioninVa
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Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:06 am

Reagan compromised with O'Neil on taxes and social security in the mid 80's and Clinton compromised with Lott on welfare reform. Those come to mind immediately. Maybe not huge, but they were able to discuss things then.

psu_dad
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Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:48 am

Reagan compromised with O'Neil on taxes and social security in the mid 80's and Clinton compromised with Lott on welfare reform.

Yes, but Reagan and Clinton didn't have their party in total control of Congress at the time. I'm not sure they embraced the spirit of compromise, They had no choice. Reagan didn't want to raise the SS tax. If the Republicans were in control of Congress at the time, he would have told O'Neil to drop dead. Just as Obama did to the Republicans over the health care bill.

One area in which I do see a dramatic difference from years ago is political coverage by the media. That has spun completely out of control. Perhaps Walter Cronkite had a political agenda years ago. Who knows. But at least he mostly kept it out of his reporting and tried to appear neutral. Today, media outlets no longer even try to hide their agenda.
Last edited by psu_dad on Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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