Politics

psu_dad
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Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Wed May 16, 2018 8:12 am

I suppose if you mess with the bull, you get the horns. Perhaps we're so accustomed to seeing others take a big steaming dump over our borders and sovereignty that it shocks us to see someone defending theirs.

Was the response overkill? Probably. But we're a country that grew to its current domain by simply claiming it as ours and slaughtering the indigenous population. So in matters like this, we should probably just shut our pie holes.
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Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Wed May 16, 2018 8:28 am

The situation in Israel is awful. Hamas didn't show up for a peaceful protest. Many of the protesters were armed with guns (smaller guns) and knives. They were explosives present too. But, they never got close to the boarder and the soldiers were firing into the crowd while it was pretty far away. I don't think the Israeli's deserve 100% of the blame for this but shooting 50+ unarmed people because some of the crowd was armed is awful. I honestly don't know what the right situation was.

As for moving the embassy, I'm not overly bothered by it, but you can't do that and claim you had no idea this type of thing would happen. Trump talking about being committed to peace in the middle east is laughable. He's clearly not.
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psu_dad
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Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Wed May 16, 2018 8:52 am

This guy thinks Trump's decisions regarding Iran and the embassy in Israel are reality-based. And I think he's probably more right than wrong.
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LioninVa
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Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Wed May 16, 2018 9:23 am

The problem with peace in the middle east is that, while many talk like they want to achieve it, they really don't feel the other religions and states are equal to their own. It is kind of like a father saying he accepts his daughters choice in a husband while believing deep down that she is too good for him. He is just waiting for the guy to screw up. It is a mess waiting to happen regardless of elected or assumed leadership.


As for the sovereign border comment. I understand what you are saying, but I disagree to some extent. We have a statue in New York Harbor that was a gift from the French. The inscription sums up what our immigration policy should be. Tired, hungry, huddled masses yearning to live free; not qualified, experienced, English speaking only as the right leaning talking heads seem to think. I get that, if you want to come here you should go through the paperwork, essentially join the club and pay the fees, I have no issue with that at all. I just don't agree that a caravan of immigrants looking for a better place to live and work is the same as an invasion force.

PSUgrower
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Re: Politics

Postby PSUgrower » Wed May 16, 2018 9:34 am

LioninVa wrote:The problem with peace in the middle east is that, while many talk like they want to achieve it, they really don't feel the other religions and states are equal to their own. It is kind of like a father saying he accepts his daughters choice in a husband while believing deep down that she is too good for him. He is just waiting for the guy to screw up. It is a mess waiting to happen regardless of elected or assumed leadership

I will take it a step further, it is kind like when a son tells his parents that he is gay and they disown. A good chunk of these people are solid humans who don't care what religion people study. But a good chunk of these people will automatically HATE you because you study a certain religion. If you are not practicing their religion you are done in their book. This will never change in these regions and will continue forever.

psu_dad
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Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Wed May 16, 2018 9:46 am

I just don't agree that a caravan of immigrants looking for a better place to live and work is the same as an invasion force.

So if such a family took up residence in your basement without your permission while you were away on vacation, you'd be content to let them stay? And if not, why not?
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LioninVa
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Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Wed May 16, 2018 10:01 am

You are misrepresenting my words, _dad. I did say they should go through the proper steps, I thought that implied that they should do it legally. Now, if my basement is an analogy to the entire nation, yes we should let them come in and stay provided they are going through that process to become naturalized. I assume they are coming here because they want a better life and are attempting to provide for their families. We are an immigrant nation, after all. I mean, until all these crotchety old men decided to tell everyone to GTFO their laws.

Oh, I live in the south and don't have a basement.

psu_dad
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Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Wed May 16, 2018 10:11 am

I live in the south and don't have a basement.

Sweet Merciful Jeezus. I love my basement. My workshop is down there. My man-cave is down there.

And I have zero problem with immigration. It just drives me up the f---ing wall when people bring up our immigrant legacy when discussing illegal immigrants. Immigrants and illegal immigrants are not the same thing.
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Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Wed May 16, 2018 10:22 am

But our immigrant legacy includes illegal immigrants, too. I'm living proof of that. My grandmother came to this country illegally in the 1920s. She came over the boarder from Canada and eventually was granted legal status and then citizenship via an amnesty program (I'm not sure what year but it was under FDR). She was exactly the type of person being complained about by the conservatives today,too. She spoke little, if any English, she had no skills, she was poor. What did she have to offer this country? Why let her in?

Her legacy includes 3 sons, 6 grand children and I have no idea how many great grandchildren. 14 and counting I believe. In that group are doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers, and a mathematician who literally helped put a man on the moon. What drives me crazy is having the contributions of my family and families similar to mine so callously dismissed to further an obscene and racist political agenda. We obviously have a right to decide who comes in and who does not, but don't pretend that this debate is really about legal vs. illegal immigration because it's clearly not. It's about who is "worthy" to come live in this country and the Trump administration and their disgusting comments have made it pretty clear who that is.

And then they bitch they get associated with groups like the Klan. Go figure.
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LioninVa
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Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Wed May 16, 2018 10:28 am

You are correct, they are not quite the same thing. But it is also not quite the invasion picture that you paint, either. It is a problem, but it can and has been dealt with in the past. Current politico would have you believe it has been ignored for 16 of the last 25 years or so, and that isn't true either.

I miss having a basement. But if the trade off is a couple days of 3-6 inches of snow or a winter with somewhere between 100 and 200 inches, I will give up my basement every day of the week!