Politics

sameoldlama
Posts: 633
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:43 am

Re: Politics

Postby sameoldlama » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:18 pm

I don't agree that the religious right / evangelicals are DT's base - they are part of R base but DT is not their man and I haven't seen him do much to cater to them other than go to some events and pretend he's a practicing Christian. Yes they voted for him but what choice did they have - were they going to vote for an ultra liberal Hillary? I'm sure there were gay people / minorities / women who were not sold on Hillary - what were they going to do - vote for Trump. it was an either or choice not an I'd like some other options situation. That's what happens when two parties have a chokehold on the system.

I just don't see DT pushing either a pro or anti social agenda because I don't think he cares. I agree with Nat he can be pushed there by the party (especially if they agree to back something he does care about) and because of his thin skin he can be provoked there by his detractors but he won't go there on his own. Politically I would think trying to overturn marriage equality is a total loser - you galvanize the opponent, the middle shakes their head and thinks it's stupid and the people who are already going to vote for you (because they are never voting D) are appeased. There is zero money in it. I think you could see challenges to abortion rights because I believe more people have deeper feeling on this (based on their religious beliefs) and people in the middle - while not accepting a complete overturn of Roe Vs. Wade may accept restrictions (say parental notification for minor, waiting period after initial consult with doctor) not currently in place.

I would agree with assessment the bigger concerns would be him appointing someone sympathetic to big money interests that may compromise workers rights or environmental regulations. That's a place he will go on his own.

Most of all I agree with Crowbar - it's going to be a total Emmertshow
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psu_dad
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:31 pm

An odd number guarantees a victory one way or the other at the top level.

It's not supposed to be about victory. It's not a pie-eating contest. These people are supposed to interpret the law and decide how it applies to the case presented to them. And invariably, they can't arrive at a consensus. Often the majority and minority TOTALLY disagree with each other.

If you asked 9 people about a restaurant and 5 told you it was great and 4 told you it was horrible, you'd probably conclude you still didn't know for sure. But with the Supreme Court, 5-4 becomes the Law of the Land and often has a profound impact on people's lives.

I don't have a better system, but that doesn't mean the current one isn't banana-land. But we're stuck with it.

LioninVa
Posts: 653
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:55 pm

OK. I understand what you are saying. Maybe "victory" was the wrong word. Is "decision" better? I mean, there is no where else to go for these cases so a decision has to be made. Rarely will it be unanimous because if it was that clear cut it wouldn't get to the SCOTUS, I think.

Not that I disagree with what you are saying, jut that I understand the reality as well.

Blue&White
Posts: 2447
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:17 pm

sameoldlama wrote:I don't agree that the religious right / evangelicals are DT's base - they are part of R base but DT is not their man and I haven't seen him do much to cater to them other than go to some events and pretend he's a practicing Christian. Yes they voted for him but what choice did they have - were they going to vote for an ultra liberal Hillary? I'm sure there were gay people / minorities / women who were not sold on Hillary - what were they going to do - vote for Trump. it was an either or choice not an I'd like some other options situation. That's what happens when two parties have a chokehold on the system.


Two things here.

First, you are incorrect about how the evangelical community feels about Trump. I'm sure there is invidivual dissent but their big names keep talking about he he's ordained by God and people who oppose him are all going to hell. They are not begrudingly behind him. They are all in 100%. It's not one person in that crowd saying this.

Second, we need a "rolling on the floor" emoticon because that's what I did when I saw the "ultra liberal Hillary" comment. There is nothing liberal, ultra, or otherwise, about Hillary Clinton. She is a major hawk and pro-war, she is pro Wall Street, anti-regulation, and, despite what you hear now, her views on immigration were not widely different from Trumps (although she didn't advocate a wall or say Mexico would pay for it). As Secretary of State she helped see the overthrow of a democratically elected leftist government in Honduras and sat on her hands while it was replaced by a military junta - an event that has been a major contributing factor to our current immigration issues, btw. But, other than offering plattitudes to the minority and gay communities (and only getting on the gay marriage bandwagon long after it was a "thing" and legalized in several states), there is nothing liberal about her.

Also, and again, it doesn't matter if Trump pushes a pro or anti social agenda. He's going to put someone on the court who is going to push that agenda for him and others will take up the work to get stuff into the courts. He may not actively push for the repeal of marriage equality, but he's not going to give a shit when it happens.

And, 100% agree that he's going to screw workers rights and the environment at every chance he can. That's already happening. And that is only going to get worse. He's pushed the EPA to reduce smog standards and is lowering air and water quality requirements. There's been a bit in the news lately about the health impacts of his policies and how poorer Americans are going to suffer health-wise. There was also a UN finding that poor people in the US are a whole lot worse off in the US since Trump took office.

All of this is going to be bad. I can't believe people still think there won't be long lasting impacts from this asshole.
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JerseyLion
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:13 pm

Re: Politics

Postby JerseyLion » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:25 pm

Trump has previously been quoted as saying same-sex marriage is established, so I don't think that is on his radar. Additional discrimination against LGBTQ people? Probably on his radar.

However, he said during the campaign that he would be in favor of prosecution for anyone obtaining an abortion. I'd say he's definitely looking for the 5th vote to overturn Roe.

If Roe is overturned, abortion immediately becomes illegal in 17 states because of laws which have been passed but could not be enforced.

psu_dad
Posts: 1491
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Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:02 pm

There was also a UN finding that poor people in the US are a whole lot worse off in the US since Trump took office.

That was a study commissioned by the UN and authored by one person: some guy from Australia who drew his conclusions based on a two-week "fact-finding" trip to the United States. And he didn't say poor people are worse off. He said the recent tax break will increase the separation between the haves and have-nots. That's not the same thing,

Screw him, the UN and the horses they rode in on. Just enjoy your Manhattan townhouses and dinners at La Grenouille and mind your own f---ing business.

Blue&White
Posts: 2447
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:09 pm

I don't want to (further) belabor the point but a judge who is going to overturn Roe v. Wade is probably willing to overturn Obergefell v. Hodges.

Or not. It's tough to predict these things. And, now that gay marriage is law, it's not so easy to just wave the magic want and take it away. There will be serious implications to that. Plus, the current court just relied on the Obergefell decision as precedent in the "bake the cake" case.

I think Trump appointing a new justice puts a lot of things at risk. Abortion rights are as good as gone in a lot of the country. You can almost bank on that, I think. I think civil rights are in danger of getting rolled back, whether or not gay marriage gets overruled remains to be seen. If you like clean air and water, then you are in for some disapointments. If you like safety standards and protections at work? Screw you, commie. When America was great, we let workers die in fires while the doors were chained shut.

I think people who cheer some of this have no idea what they are really giving up. But, my guess is they are going to find out.
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Blue&White
Posts: 2447
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:18 pm

And he didn't say poor people are worse off. He said the recent tax break will increase the separation between the haves and have-nots. That's not the same thing,

No, it's not the same thing, but the report said both were happening.

And, you can attack his methodology if you want, but is there any part of that you think isn't true?
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psu_dad
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:25 pm

Those conditions he lamented in that article you linked? How many of them are recent developments?

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psu_dad
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Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:35 pm

Discount Boner Pills. Cool. This board is a treasure trove