Politics

Blue&White
Posts: 2638
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:09 pm

49 percent of Americans think Trump likely committed a crime

The numbers in this article, if they are remotely accurate, are astounding. An overwhelming majority of Americans, per this article, are ok with the Mueller investigation and how it's going. A whopping 58%. But, the best part, to me, is towards the end: a mere 19% think there has been "solid evidence" that Trump committed a crime (I'm curious as to what solid evidence those 19% are referring to) and 30% (they list it as 3 in 10) say it's their suspicion. I guess that's the 49% ABC refers to in the headline but that's not quite the same as saying 49% believe Trump committed a crime. Not when 30% are just suspecting it happened.

Still, these numbers are pretty amazing for a guy who's been in office for like 10 months. I think Trump is a total douchebag but, even so, I can't get over what a sandbag job this has been since the day he took office. The intelligence community should not be able to do this to a legally elected President, I don't care how much of a loon I think he may be. This is not how a democracy is supposed to work.

I have no idea how this will play out, and maybe Trump and his team really did collude with the Russians to rig the election. But, I'd put my money on "didn't happen". I have no problem believing laws were broken during the campaign as laws are probably always broken. And, if laws are not broken, that's only because things that should be illegal are not. Just look at how the Democrats rigged the primary against Sanders. That was a demonstration on how to thwart the electorate and make sure your person won. And, you don't hear "boo" about that. Why not? I think that should probably be investigated as well. The Democrats were unbelievably slimy during that process. I don't know if it crossed any legal lines but I have a suspicion it may have. And, that seems to be enough to launch an investigation these days.
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psu_dad
Posts: 1603
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Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:47 pm

Still, these numbers are pretty amazing for a guy who's been in office for like 10 months.

I suspect you would have gotten a similar "49%" number two days after the election. The 48.2% of the electorate that voted for HIllary would likely respond (if polled) that they believed Trump was a direct descendant of Satan.

I'm sure an exhaustive post-election investigation to ferret out any wrong-doing will now become standard in the future. :lol:
Last edited by psu_dad on Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:59 pm

I'm sure an exhaustive post-election investigation to ferret out any wrong-doing will now become standard in the future. :lol:

I'd actually be ok with that. What I'd really be ok with is if we took money out of elections, only used public funds, got rid of the PACs, etc.
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PittGradPSUMad
Posts: 457
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:47 pm

Re: Politics

Postby PittGradPSUMad » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:44 pm

Blue&White wrote:I'm sure an exhaustive post-election investigation to ferret out any wrong-doing will now become standard in the future. :lol:

I'd actually be ok with that. What I'd really be ok with is if we took money out of elections, only used public funds, got rid of the PACs, etc.


Angels singing hallelujah will come flying out of my bum before that happens. After all, money is free speech, corporations are people and lawyers would file lawsuits out the wazzoo to correct this most serious, horrible and very naughty violation of the first amendment. And I agree with your most sensible solution to this vexing problem. Currently, Citizens United guarantees that we get the best politicians that money can buy.
Yeah, well, that's like your opinion, man.

LioninVa
Posts: 674
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:56 am

psu_dad wrote:The 48.2% of the electorate that voted for HIllary would likely respond (if polled) that they believed Trump was a direct descendant of Satan.


Well, this could explain the color tone of his skin...

I haven't read the article B-Dub linked, so I can't comment on the contents. I also have no idea if Trump, his family or his campaign did anything to assist the Russia activities in the past election. There has been a lot of smoke; maybe real, maybe manufactured; but I have no problem with an independent investigation to find out. I would hope, probably wrongly, that we are able to learn and improve our security to prevent this from occurring again.

As I have sad more than a few times, my issue with this is the hypocrisy that takes place from both parties. Had Hillary won, the MSM would be doing what they are now, only exactly opposite with regards to slant or spin. It is no longer about right or wrong as much as it is right left...

psu_dad
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:57 am

There's a lot of things I don't like about this, the least of which is the annoyance of President Kucklehead.

I don't like the "OMG, the Russians maybe interfered with our election!" whining. We've been doing that to other countries for decades. If it did happen, the only gracious way to handle that while not looking like a hypocritical asshat is to publicly shut your pie hole and work behind the scenes to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I don't like the use of the alleged Russian involvement as an excuse for the D.C. establishment and MSM to hammer a POTUS that neither of them wanted. They are both sending a clear message to the electorate, i.e. "Vote for who we tell you to vote for, you ignorant peasant. We're running this show, not you."

I don't like the constant anti-Russian sentiment. Yes, I know Putin is a clown. So is our president. But I would WAY rather have a good relationship with Russia than with Mexico. WTF do we get out of the latter relationship? We give them our manufacturing jobs and they, in return, take a big steaming dump over our borders and immigration laws. Pretty sweet. Yet the last POTUS spent 8 years kissing the bum of the Mexican president. And he stood there mute while Presidente Pantload from Mexico lectured us from the Rose Garden on how we should be handling the millions of illegals his country has sent our way. Made me want to puke.
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hbendle
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:48 am

Re: Politics

Postby hbendle » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:06 am

I often think that CIA meddling in Ukraine elections is in some way what brought us to where we are now.

This whole thing does have the witch hunt feel to it, the only difference being it actually managed to find a few witches along the way. Incidental $$ laundering aside, the opposition is doing themselves no favors with this. It sours the moderate left and right just as much as the Hillary dead-horse beatings, and further enrages the staunch supporters inciting more pitched battles on whatever the next, actually important, topic is. Like taxes.

I disagree on the "work behind the scenes" part in that, since social media was the avenue for sowing disorder, it probably needs to be aired publicly in order to help staunch the flow into the media stream. If it can be helped at all. We've probably exceeded critical mass for sown disorder at this point.

psu_dad
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:03 am

I disagree on the "work behind the scenes" part in that, since social media was the avenue for sowing disorder, it probably needs to be aired publicly in order to help staunch the flow into the media stream.

I suppose that depends on whether disorder is being sowed by the dissemination of false information or by the dissemination of true information that is being hidden from the American public. I don't necessarily want the flow of the latter being staunched, although I concede that it gets somewhat dicier if the information is obtained illegally.
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hbendle
Posts: 148
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Re: Politics

Postby hbendle » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:56 am

I'm thinking more along the lines of "see this crap you retweeted a million times, got into a flame war with 3 other people, and disowned your nephew? The Russians made it all up. Use your brain. Stop being an internet a-hole."

Carl Spackler
Posts: 437
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:22 pm

Re: Politics

Postby Carl Spackler » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:05 pm

Blue&White wrote:49 percent of Americans think Trump likely committed a crime

The numbers in this article, if they are remotely accurate, are astounding. An overwhelming majority of Americans, per this article, are ok with the Mueller investigation and how it's going. A whopping 58%. But, the best part, to me, is towards the end: a mere 19% think there has been "solid evidence" that Trump committed a crime (I'm curious as to what solid evidence those 19% are referring to) and 30% (they list it as 3 in 10) say it's their suspicion. I guess that's the 49% ABC refers to in the headline but that's not quite the same as saying 49% believe Trump committed a crime. Not when 30% are just suspecting it happened.

Still, these numbers are pretty amazing for a guy who's been in office for like 10 months. I think Trump is a total douchebag but, even so, I can't get over what a sandbag job this has been since the day he took office. The intelligence community should not be able to do this to a legally elected President, I don't care how much of a loon I think he may be. This is not how a democracy is supposed to work.

I have no idea how this will play out, and maybe Trump and his team really did collude with the Russians to rig the election. But, I'd put my money on "didn't happen". I have no problem believing laws were broken during the campaign as laws are probably always broken. And, if laws are not broken, that's only because things that should be illegal are not. Just look at how the Democrats rigged the primary against Sanders. That was a demonstration on how to thwart the electorate and make sure your person won. And, you don't hear "boo" about that. Why not? I think that should probably be investigated as well. The Democrats were unbelievably slimy during that process. I don't know if it crossed any legal lines but I have a suspicion it may have. And, that seems to be enough to launch an investigation these days.


"This ABC News/Washington Post poll was conducted by landline and cellular telephone Oct. 30 through Nov. 1, 2017, in English and Spanish, among a random national sample of 714 adults. Results have a margin of sampling error of 4 points, including the design effect. Partisan divisions are 32-23-38 percent, Democrats-Republicans-independents."

Respondents Identify as = 58% Democrats vs 41% Republicans in a head to head comparison, what result do you think they might provide? Then the obvious 32-23-38 cut with identifying Independents nearly at 40% of the poll. I've found that independents often lean one way or the other but do not want to be indemnify thus the independent moniker. Add in it was an ABC poll and the msm comprises a shrinking but sizable market share which is now openly dedicated to the destruction of the President in a frenzy not seen since the Nixon administration. The results could have been predicted before the poll was taken and are partisan driven.
So I got that going for me...which is nice. It's a cross between Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent and Northern California Sensimilla so you can play 36 holes on it,take it home at night and get stoned to the begesses belt