Politics

Crowbar
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Re: Politics

Postby Crowbar » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:10 pm

P.S., John McCain was no coward.
41-33.

Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:07 pm

Imagine the response if Obama was president and initially refused to issue a declaration for the White House flag to be at half mast for McCain and then only did it after the backlash started to grow.
Is it baseball season yet?

Nat@PSU
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Re: Politics

Postby Nat@PSU » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:53 pm

But . . . her emails!!


We elected a president who has no redeeming qualities. Man I hate that guy.
- Nat

Let's Go State!!

LioninVa
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Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:03 pm

The bottom line is that the GOP really only cares about the W. I suppose the same is true for the Dems, but they seem to be the Cleveland Browns right now. Only, this isn’t a game. I know it isn’t that simplistic, but I think it’s a fair comparison.

Crowbar
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Re: Politics

Postby Crowbar » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:10 pm

Repugnants are blowhards. Demorats are stupid and can't get out of their own way.

That sums it up in a nutshell.
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sameoldlama
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Re: Politics

Postby sameoldlama » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:01 pm

In understood the McCain flag thing is it was flown at half mast but returned to full mast after just 1-2 two days which his critics saw as inadequate (and something DT should have bot seen coming - but it is the petty type of thing he can't just let pass). DT did issue a generic offering of condolences and - predictably - was slammed for not being laudatory enough. IMO this is where the press and his critics go overboard. The feud between the two was well known and in my opinion - two sided - McCain was an early critic of DT and DT - in DT style no doubt went straight to nuclear with his comments about McCain's service. IMO McCain was just as bad as not letting that go as DT and the two engaged in a petty back and forth.
I liked McCain and voted from him when I lived in AZ, supported him when he ran in POTUS primary against Bush - but after that loss he seemed to be a bit bitter towards his party and that seemed to get worse after he lost to Obama (I wondered if the party saddled him with Palin or he felt he didn't get the backing he needed). At the end he just seemed like a guy who had an exemplary career but held on too long. He certainly should have resigned his Senate seat when his health prevented him from properly serving his constituents. In a way he reminds me of Paterno - a great man who just didn't see when it was time to ride off into the sunset - but that is something everyone faces at some point - it's just more visible for someone in a leadership position.

As far as everyone's favorite POTUS - DT - his recent issues have a two fold dynamic - legal and political.

Legally whatever befalls DT he should look no further than himself. Before you ran for office you knew what you did. Any affairs you had and any financial misdealings that occurred - you knew what you did. That's why you ponied up confidentiality agreements. And you certainly should have known these things could come to light if you ran for office. So when your wife leaves you and any fine or time you do for financial crimes - well these were foreseeable outcomes. And given you ran a scorched earth campaign and skewered American political royalty (Bushes, Clintons) and took on Skynet (liberal media) you should have damn well known anything you would do from the minute you became a candidate to the minute you leave office was going to be looked at in the most critical terms possible - he should have seen that coming from outer space. If he drops a McDonalds cheeseburger wrapper on a sidewalk in NYC they may re-institute the death penalty for a day.

Legal proceedings - once into a courtroom deal with facts, logic, reason, rule of law - concepts that are generally absent from politics. Politically DT has some play and the Rs have a lot to play. The Mueller investigation is basically the Bill Clinton investigation with a change in the cast of characters. It's not an investigation into a crime - it's an open ended investigation of a person (and one who is far more unlikable than Bill Clinton was). It was initiated on paid for lies by an opposition candidate (who broke campaign finance laws to do it) and advanced by corrupt and biased government officials, some of whom helped tank the investigation into HRC's criminal enterprise. Hell of an irony if you ain't on the receiving end. I would guess most of us recognize that most politicians - if subjected to an open investigation of unlimited time, scope and resources would be found guilty of something. So why just this guy - because he made those people look ridiculous and people in their position cannot afford to made to look ridiculous.
DT can play this card a little but in the end he's the guy saying - well everyone was speeding why did you only pull me over. The Rs need to play on issues their voters favor (economy is doing well, enforcing immigration law) but they need to let legal process on DT play out but they can play the - "what about HRC and the related corruption Ds looked the other way on?" all they want. In the end they hope for economy to stay favorable for two more years and DT's legal issues provide them an out for getting a 2020 candidate who can promote the platform their supporters want to see continue but leaves the crazy behind.
Wendall : That's very linear Sheriff
Ed Tom : Age will flatten a man Wendall

Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:03 am

In understood the McCain flag thing is it was flown at half mast but returned to full mast after just 1-2 two days which his critics saw as inadequate (and something DT should have bot seen coming - but it is the petty type of thing he can't just let pass). DT did issue a generic offering of condolences and - predictably - was slammed for not being laudatory enough. IMO this is where the press and his critics go overboard. The feud between the two was well known and in my opinion - two sided - McCain was an early critic of DT and DT - in DT style no doubt went straight to nuclear with his comments about McCain's service. IMO McCain was just as bad as not letting that go as DT and the two engaged in a petty back and forth.

This was more than the press and Trump's critics going overboard. There was an expectation based on precedent and it was held by his own party and veterans groups. The reaction wasn't media driven, it was pretty genuine and it was extremely predictable. Yes, his critics jumped on the bandwagon - even those who couldn't stand McCain, but this was a totally self inflicted wound.

I have mixed feelings on McCain and there is a lot in his record - as both a politician and as a person - that leave much to be desired. He wasn't all that great a person and had no issue getting chummy with extreme right wing groups and terrorists if they were opposing people he was against. He embraced neo-Nazis in the Ukraine and rebels who were basically Isis in Syria. His willingness to embrace people like that because they were the enemy of his enemy raises some serious questions about his ethics in my view. And, that just scratches the surface of my issues with McCain. But, not issuing the formal proclamation honoring him and lowering the flags was guaranteed to cause the exact blow back that it caused. Trump is so petty he can't get out of his own way. And, whatever else McCain was, it's tough to deny he was a heroic. He had the chance to go home early from that hell hole and refused to go unless they released all the men. He volunteered to be a captive, and tortured, for another 5 years rather than use his position as an admirals' son to go home early. For Trump to diss that and then talk about how brave Manafort is for not flipping on him in almost the same week was galling even to me.

As for the rest of it, I guess we will find out. I think there is no way he is removed from office because he paid off playboy models and porn stars to prevent them from talking about sleeping with them. And, if that's all they have, they shouldn't even bother trying. Not just because it will never work but because it will royally piss off large numbers of the country who don't think it's worth getting removed from office over. The question is - what else is there? Him going off about how wrong it is to send someone to jail for tax fraud makes me think he is probably guilty of tax fraud. And probably money laundering and other white collar crimes. If that comes out, then I think he may have a real problem.

Whatever. I'm sure all will be revealed in the days prior to the election.
Is it baseball season yet?

Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:20 pm

Is it baseball season yet?

Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:15 pm

So, I didn't watch the McCain funeral stuff at all, but reading about it it seems there were 2 key messages delivered in his honor:

1. We must all work together for the common goals and be willing to reach across the aisle to deal with people we generally don't agree with; and

2. Neener, neener, suck it Trump. We all hate you.

Did I miss anything?
Is it baseball season yet?

Crowbar
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Re: Politics

Postby Crowbar » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:13 pm

Basically we can't even have a damn funeral anymore without political crap being spewed. :roll:
41-33.