Politics

hbendle
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:48 am

Re: Politics

Postby hbendle » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:15 pm

So here's a little microcosmic story about political fallout with China re: environmental policy.
Suffolk County, NY has been, at times, a little proactive about environment. Last year for example, they implemented this 'plastic bag fee' thing at all sorts of retailers to try and encourage a bring-your-own, reuse/recycle mindset. PITA, but I get it. Eliminate the grocery bags blowing into the forests and oceans.

Bigger issue was recycling. My town used to be paper on the curb one week; particular plastics, foil, glass etc. the opposite week. Then, in a big move, they went to single stream recycling: everything every week, and they take all plastics, pizza boxes, etc. This was GREAT. I paid attention, participated, and ended up with more in the recycling bin than the trash bin on most any given week. The Brookhaven Town was touting their tonnage reduction to the landfill, an environmental success all around.

Fast forward to this past week -- not too far from election day -- and all of the sudden Town says "Uhh, yeah so no more mixed recycling. No glass at all either." Go back to biweekly paper plastic, and now we are going to pile it into the landfill again. And no glass at all?? Some claims of 'contamination -- unwashed food and oil jugs and whatnot. Ultimately, local politicians are citing the lack of sales of the mixed recycling, because China won't take it from the contractor anymore, because tariffs and trade wars, etc.
My firsthand experience of political fallout hitting home, literally.

PSUgrower
Posts: 713
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:52 am

Re: Politics

Postby PSUgrower » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:21 pm

I read that China is tightening their recycling and it has nothing to do with tariffs. Maybe I am wrong. We are no longer throwing cardboard into our recycling

Blue&White
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Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:50 pm

PSUgrower wrote:I read that China is tightening their recycling and it has nothing to do with tariffs. Maybe I am wrong. We are no longer throwing cardboard into our recycling


You may be wrong but that's what I've read as well. I believe this started prior to the tariffs.

Where I live we are still doing single stream, everything in one recycling bin. But, I figure that is going to stop at some point.
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Crowbar
Posts: 696
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:54 pm

Re: Politics

Postby Crowbar » Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:46 am

Merry Christmas Ford employees. :(

I am no expert in these things. But, I would think it's not a good idea to start a trade war with a country you're trillions in debt too. :?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-pre ... HkC6PA-L8s
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Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:35 am

But auto sales are down, and one reason is the trade tariffs that Trump has imposed on metals and other goods. According to Bloomberg, Hackett has said they have already cost the company $1 billion in profit and could do “more damage” if the disputes aren’t resolved quickly.

I get how the tariffs are impacting profits and causing Ford, and other automakers, a lot of grief and contributing to financial problems. What I don't get is how tariffs are impacting sales. Are the tariffs driving prices up too, leading to lower sales? Is that what this is trying to say?

That confusion aside, I don't think there should be any real surprise that the tariffs are having an economic impact. And, this trade war won't be so easy to win. In fact, the Chinese have huge advantages over us that even my uneducated-on-such-matters eyes can see, as follows:

1. as low as the national participation in the stock market is in this country, it's really low in China. It is minuscule (like 2 or 3% from what I read) and all those people are in favor with the government and aren't likely to rattle cages so there won't be much market blow back;

2. China, despite their economic reforms, is an authoritarian country who's leaders aren't subject to the worry of outraged voters. So, while the average Chinese citizen may feel real pain from this trade war (and I am sure they will) the Chinese government is not accountable to them at all - Trump doesn't have that luxury

3. Our economy and the recent massive tax cuts were brought to you by China and their willingness to buy US debt. When they feel they can no longer do that - be it for economic reasons, political reasons, or some combination of the two - we are in big, big, big financial trouble. And, they know that. So, how long until they play that card?

I don't think Trump's fundamental point about how China behaves is all that far off from the truth. But, this was probably not the best way to go about dealing with it. Long term, maybe he's right and this works out in our best interest. Short term, it's going to cost a lot of pain and I think this is going to destroy whatever chances he has for a 2nd term (which is just spiffy with me, btw). Layoffs in states that voted for him are not going to go over well. The farmers - who overwhelmingly voted for him - are not happy. Now labor, a majority of which supported him - is starting to feel the pinch. He's going to be left with the hard right fanatics pretty soon, and that's going to be ugly for both him and the Republican party.
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PittGradPSUMad
Posts: 457
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:47 pm

Re: Politics

Postby PittGradPSUMad » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:10 pm

2020 is a long way off and so are all bets. While voters are more likely to be swayed by their pocket books, the golfer-in-chief is teflon coated. Of course, I write this pessimistic post in the wake of unsuccessfully avoiding politics over Thansgiving. I am stunned to discover that nothing he says or does....the lies, the bragging, bullying and belittling of any and all who dare to criticize the orange menace....makes a negative impact on his supporters. Family members are still on the "trump train." Six months ago, younger brother, who is heavily invested in Apple, cited the booming stock market as proof that trump's policies are making a difference. Today, as Apple and the market.continues it's precipitous drop, YB is still....his words..."on the trump train". I can't wait to go home.
Yeah, well, that's like your opinion, man.

Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:24 pm

People don't like to be told they are wrong or made a mistake. If you two have been battling over this, it's unlikely he's going to say "well, you were right and I was wrong" any more than you would. Human beings are instinctively tribal and it's very difficult for us to see the problems with "our" side. That's why they people chanting "lock her up" over Clinton's use of a private email server are drawing all kinds of distinctions from Ivanka Trump doing mostly the same thing (it's not the exact same thing - Ivanka was not Secretary of State and I've yet to see anyone say classified information passed through that server, but, man, how f-ing stupid can she be?).

I've said this before: Trump voters fall into two broad categories: true believers and people who felt he was the better of two awful choices. The true believers are going to dig in no matter what he does. But, the people who voted for him because he was the lessor of two evils are not that emotionally invested. I know several people who voted for him because he was not Clinton and all of them said they doubt they will do it again. He lost the popular vote by 3 million votes and he carried states like Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin by the slimmest of margins. It won't take a lot of middle-of-the-road voters to say "screw this" to turn 2020 the other way. And, despite the fact that the Democrats did not take as many seats in the House as some thought they would, when you look at the total number of votes cast for each party the reality is that the Republicans have a lot to worry about. Gerrymandering is not going to help them in a Presidential election. And, a lot of the Republican held senate seats are up for grabs in 2020.

Everything will really depend on the economy. People vote with their wallets, not their hearts. We will see what things look like in 2020. But based on the current trends, they are not going to look good. The market is crashing because investors don't think the current growth is sustainable. A lot of companies have been quietly downsizing recently; the numbers have not yet been large enough to have an impact on unemployment rates and it may stay that way. But, if it doesn't - if unemployment reverses course (and logic says it has to) you're going to see a lot of unhappy voters.

And then the Democrats will take over and people will get sick of them. They will put someone up who is not, from a policy perspective, all that substantively different then Trump but knows how to play the crowd better and doesn't pee on the rug, but not a whole lot will change. Rinse, repeat.
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PSUgrower
Posts: 713
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:52 am

Re: Politics

Postby PSUgrower » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:15 pm

There were a few people on this board defended the way Dump dealt with Clinton and her emails. To the people who defended him, what is the difference between Clinton's emails and Trump's daughter's emails?

Blue&White
Posts: 2621
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:46 am

Do we know if she received classified information via that account and through that server? Did she even get security clearance? If there was no classified info, that is the difference. And, it's a pretty big difference. What she did was technically illegal, but it's not really criminal. I suppose it could be a misdemeanor but you wouldn't go to jail for it. People have gone to jail, however, for being careless with classified information. Even if it was done carelessly as opposed to maliciously.

Btw, all that being said - how f-ing stupid can she be? She looks like a total idiot and her father and his advocates look like complete and utter hypocrites.
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sameoldlama
Posts: 662
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:43 am

Re: Politics

Postby sameoldlama » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:12 am

I think two other significant differences may be the volume - Hillary had tens of thousands of e-mails involved and when it came to surface DT's daughter didn't delete the e-mails, take a hammer to her electronic devices and bleach bit the hard drives.

I agree though somebody should be calling DT's daughter into an office and giving her an incredulous look and saying "Really? Are you kidding me?"
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