Politics

Nat@PSU
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:56 pm

Re: Politics

Postby Nat@PSU » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:18 am

Crowbar wrote:I'll take the bait and say something nice about DJT. He has exposed both sides for the frauds they are.


The Democrats are in no way the party of peace. I couldn't even find anything from Michael Moore praising the proposed Syria withdrawal (though I'll believe this when I see it). With that said, I do feel awful for the Kurds. How many damn times are we going to screw those poor people?


I don't understand this take. Most of the things I've read from serious people on the left outlines that the frustrations surrounding Trump's decision to pull out of Syria fall in two categories:

1. It doesn't appear as though he consulted or cared about the opinions of career professionals who help make policy decisions like this. It was a unilateral, knee jerk decision that appears (in my opinion) to be a response to all of the negative press Trump was receiving over Cohen/Flynn/Mueller stuff. Also, people love to poo-poo career government employees and I'm far from endorsing the whole of our foreign military policy over the past 20 years, but if I've learned anything in life it is that experience matters, often more than talent. Ignoring the people in the room who know what they're talking about is not a good way to make decisions.

2. We are leaving our Kurdish allies hanging and creating the same type of power vacuum that really helped ISIS grow initially. Thinking that their power/activity won't grow again seems, at best, misguided.

There are no simple answers on foreign policy. These situations are complex and nuanced and often without any GOOD options. We have a President who either doesn't understand or refuses to acknowledge complexity and nuance. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Also, the temper tantrum he is throwing over financing this wall that he said Mexico would pay for is absolutely insane and indefensible. We can't find better ways to spend $5 Billion domestically? Not mention that $5B is just the start and it will likely do little to solve the problem it is intended to solve? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. And shutting down our government 3 times in two years while holding the House, Senate, and the Presidency is also indefensible.

Republicans can f$*k straight off with this nonsense and "bothsides-ism".
- Nat

Let's Go State!!

Blue&White
Posts: 3501
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:59 pm

The Cato Institute, which is funded by the Koch brothers and is far from a left leaning institution, has some suggestions about how to pay for the wall.

I like the idea of holding Trump to his comments. I think the Democrats should start doing a lot more of that. Trump is very imprecise in what he says and for someone who claims to be the best negotiator in the world, that is a big weakness. As someone who negotiated for a living I can tell you that being imprecise in what you want can come back and haunt you. Yugely. So, that is how the Democrats should respond.
Baseball season!!!!

Crowbar
Posts: 879
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:54 pm

Re: Politics

Postby Crowbar » Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:21 pm

Nat@PSU wrote:
Crowbar wrote:I'll take the bait and say something nice about DJT. He has exposed both sides for the frauds they are.


The Democrats are in no way the party of peace. I couldn't even find anything from Michael Moore praising the proposed Syria withdrawal (though I'll believe this when I see it). With that said, I do feel awful for the Kurds. How many damn times are we going to screw those poor people?


I don't understand this take. Most of the things I've read from serious people on the left outlines that the frustrations surrounding Trump's decision to pull out of Syria fall in two categories:

1. It doesn't appear as though he consulted or cared about the opinions of career professionals who help make policy decisions like this. It was a unilateral, knee jerk decision that appears (in my opinion) to be a response to all of the negative press Trump was receiving over Cohen/Flynn/Mueller stuff. Also, people love to poo-poo career government employees and I'm far from endorsing the whole of our foreign military policy over the past 20 years, but if I've learned anything in life it is that experience matters, often more than talent. Ignoring the people in the room who know what they're talking about is not a good way to make decisions.

2. We are leaving our Kurdish allies hanging and creating the same type of power vacuum that really helped ISIS grow initially. Thinking that their power/activity won't grow again seems, at best, misguided.

There are no simple answers on foreign policy. These situations are complex and nuanced and often without any GOOD options. We have a President who either doesn't understand or refuses to acknowledge complexity and nuance. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Also, the temper tantrum he is throwing over financing this wall that he said Mexico would pay for is absolutely insane and indefensible. We can't find better ways to spend $5 Billion domestically? Not mention that $5B is just the start and it will likely do little to solve the problem it is intended to solve? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. And shutting down our government 3 times in two years while holding the House, Senate, and the Presidency is also indefensible.

Republicans can f$*k straight off with this nonsense and "bothsides-ism".


I think your last line sums up everything. You love Demorats and hate Repugnants. That's great.

But I don't understand how you can think how a peace at all costs liberal like Michael Moore can stay silent when Trump is giving him everything he wants. A troop pullout from Syria and Afghanistan. He should be dancing in the streets.

I have my reservations about this (BHO failed at this too). It may very well lead to something far worse. I also said I have concerns about the Kurds and the number of times we've screwed them.

Sorry, both sides have been exposed. Whether one wants to acknowledge it is another matter.
National Champions 1911, 1912, 1969, 1981, 1982, 1986, 1994

Nat@PSU
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:56 pm

Re: Politics

Postby Nat@PSU » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:25 am

Crowbar wrote:
I think your last line sums up everything. You love Demorats and hate Repugnants. That's great.

But I don't understand how you can think how a peace at all costs liberal like Michael Moore can stay silent when Trump is giving him everything he wants. A troop pullout from Syria and Afghanistan. He should be dancing in the streets.

I have my reservations about this (BHO failed at this too). It may very well lead to something far worse. I also said I have concerns about the Kurds and the number of times we've screwed them.

Sorry, both sides have been exposed. Whether one wants to acknowledge it is another matter.


Yeah, we are going to have to part ways on this. Waiting for Michael Moore to be dancing in the streets is an odd barometer. I think that people who are conservative think that people with liberal leanings place way more stock in Michael Moore than they actually do. I honestly can't remember the last time I looked for or gave a crap about what Michael Moore thinks.

I'm critical of Trumps decisions regarding Syria and Afghanistan because of the reactionary nature (frankly it feels like a response to a litany of bad press surrounding Cohen, Mueller, Flynn, as well as our current government shutdown over a Wall he wants and is throwing a tantrum over) as well as the fact that it shows a lack of planning, forethought, or anything resembling a serious assessment of our positions in those countries.

Do I want our troops out of those countries? Absolutely. However, I'm concerned that the manner of our withdraw we are planning will leave the same type of power vacuum that allows for a resurgence in recruitment for ISIS. I'm not naive enough to think that there are any good answers, I just don't trust that Trump has engaged in anything that would lead him to a reasonable conclusion.

I don't love all Democrats (frankly, a lot of the left drives me batshit crazy) or hate all Republicans. I do think that a lot of Republican legislators have abdicated their duties to serve as a balance of power over the last two years. I hope the corporate tax cuts were worth it. This country is a damn mess.
- Nat

Let's Go State!!

LioninVa
Posts: 777
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:34 pm

[quote="Nat@PSU]

I don't love all Democrats (frankly, a lot of the left drives me batshit crazy) or hate all Republicans. I do think that a lot of Republican legislators have abdicated their duties to serve as a balance of power over the last two years. I hope the corporate tax cuts were worth it. This country is a damn mess.[/quote]

This is the key, as far as I am concerned! I have friends of all political, religious and social persuasions, and I don’t let views interfere. I also know people who think that we are all bound by those persuasions. I am sure you have seen memes or comments that imply all liberals do things to oppose Trump or all conservatives march in lock step. It isn’t that simple.

As a military guy, I am glad that he finally went to see forward deployed troops but hate that he made it about him and politics rather than them. I am glad they are getting a raise, but it isn’t 10% like he keeps saying. We need to keep an eye on facts.

Blue&White
Posts: 3501
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:42 pm

I am glad they are getting a raise,

They got a raise last year, too. And the year before. And every other year for the period of time he says they didn't. Don't get lulled in, dude.
Baseball season!!!!

LioninVa
Posts: 777
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:25 pm

They have gotten a raise every year since I enlisted in 90. The best were in the Clinton era, but republicans claim it’s because of the GOP Congress. The reasons don’t matter to me!

Crowbar
Posts: 879
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:54 pm

Re: Politics

Postby Crowbar » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:14 pm

Nat@PSU wrote:
Crowbar wrote:

I don't love all Democrats (frankly, a lot of the left drives me batshit crazy) or hate all Republicans. I do think that a lot of Republican legislators have abdicated their duties to serve as a balance of power over the last two years. I hope the corporate tax cuts were worth it. This country is a damn mess.


I'm down with this. 8-)
National Champions 1911, 1912, 1969, 1981, 1982, 1986, 1994

Blue&White
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Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:34 am

So, what does everyone think we are going to hear in the speech tonight? I figure there are 3 possibilities.

1. He tries to declare a "national emergency", reallocate funds earmarked for other purposes in the federal budget, and kicks off a series of law suits and constitutional challenges that makes the Supreme Court collectively gag.

2. He makes his case to the American public by citing the same bunch of easily debunked lies and exaggerations he and his team have been spewing since he announced his candidacy, doubles down on the crazy, and we get absolutely no where.

3. He goes on TV to announce what is a compromise position and urges the Democrats to sit with him and work out the final details so we can end this stupidity.

Ok, I lied. There are really only 2 possibilities because #3 is never going to happen. There is a better chance of ... well, of absolutely anything, than there is a chance of scenario #3.

There was also a few stories over the weekend out of WaPo and others that Trump and his team had absolutely no idea what the potential impact of this shut down was going to be. They had no clue that food stamps would freeze, HUD payments would stop and could lead to evictions, the TSA wouldn't be paid, etc. They didn't ask anyone and they had no idea and were caught completely offguard. And, now they have a potential disaster on their hands that Trump took ownership of before it even happened.

Fun stuff.
Baseball season!!!!

PSUgrower
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Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:52 am

Re: Politics

Postby PSUgrower » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:27 am

Over the weekend Dump started his blaming game. He said he would take responsibility for the shutdown but then blamed Pelosi and Schumer too. I cannot believe this guy is still our president! He has no fricken clue. He is pulling out troops in the middle east and doesn't realize the chaos that is about to ensue! Dump does not think ahead at all. Weakening ties in middle east will lead to more terrorism and I hope it doesn't come to America's doorstep (even though homegrown terrorists are a bigger issue at the moment). I just don't understand how American support this baboon!

I cannot wait to watch him crash and burn during his speech. I have a feeling he will go rogue at some point and all of his cronies are screaming at him in the background for him to stop :D