Politics

Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:14 am

Setting up a meeting with another world leader does not happen quickly. I think we can absolutely know it was agreed upon long before the decision to call Cohen to Washington. And, the Cohen hearing was supposed to be a couple of weeks ago but was delayed because he was sick.
Is it baseball season yet?

LioninVa
Posts: 744
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:59 am

Republicans claimed the session was set up to distract from the big NK summit, but I thought it was scheduled earlier and canceled. Thanks for verifying that, B-Dub.

The GOP members of the committee kept bashin Cohen as a liar, which is accurate, and how it degrades Congress, which is less accurate but not untrue. Then, the CPAC conference has Oliver North in to speak to the crowd, which doesn’t help restore morality to them, in my opinion.

Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:12 pm

PSUgrower wrote:Secondly, the people who support Dump, why aren't they pissed about how Dump treats NKorea and Russia? Another reason I am baffled on his support.


During the Bush years, there were people (including me) who accused of him of all sorts of Constitutional violations and felt he committed criminal acts. You may recall back in 2014 Obama ordered the killing of an American citizen, Anwar al-Awlaki. Awlaki was no babe in the woods. He was likely a criminal and a terrorist. But, he was an American citizen who was specifically targetted for execution by the President of the United States in clear contravention of the 4th, 5th and 14th Amendments. And, many of the people who screamed at the top of their lungs about the abuses of the Bush administration sat on their hands and said nothing.

Appoo and I got into a big argument about this. He went on and on about how there was all this due diligence - which he said was just as good as due process - and how Obama probably agonized over the decision to muder and American citizen. I was, as you may (or may not) recall, appalled at his defense of this act. I am still apalled, both that it happened and that people who really should have known better were willing to defend it.

Can you imagine the response if it was Bush who killed Awlaki without any trial or adjudication in a court? Imagine it was Trump? There would be people marching in the streets over it. But, when Obama did it, you could mostly hear a pin drop. Yes, there were people on both sides of the asile who put their hands up and complained about what had happened. And, yes, there were some voices in the press who highlighted that the executive branch had likely committed a murder here and Obama had possibly violated his oath of office. But, at no point did Congress make any move to censure or curtail this executive power. And, I don't recall the New York Times or The Washington Post at any point calling for Obama to be impeached or any other action being advocated for.

What Obama did was far worse than anything Trump has done. Forget these wild accusations against Trump, Obama ordered the execution of an American citizen. And, the people who liked him rationalized it, excused it, and ignored it. So, why aren't the people who support Trump upset over his cowtowing to Russia and North Korea? Because human beings are tribal, this is "their" guy, and we are all so subject to endless streams of propoganda that people just dismiss any story that doesn't support their narrative.
Is it baseball season yet?

LioninVa
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Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:07 pm

I kind of figured you would bring this point back up, and I can’t disagree with the legality because I simply lack knowledge. Not that this has ever stopped me before, of course, but I remember the passion in the disagreement between you an Appoo and do not intend to revisit that at this point. I do believe that the Republicans did not raise a big issue for at least two reasons. First, W (arguably) started this war on terrorism anda-Awalki was seen as a terrorist threat so his death was a strike in something they supported. Not that this makes it any better or legal, of course. Second, a recently as four of five years ago, they did not want to seem like hypocrites. This attitude has seemed to have left the building, however. (Not in this specific situation as much as in the cult of Trump, I think)

Today, we have an American born woman )I cannot recall her name at the moment) who burned her passport and took up with terrorists who now wants to return to Alabama knowing she would face justice. The Trump administration has stated that she is not welcome back in this country. B-Dub, I am curious to what your thoughts are on this situation and if she has a constitutional right t return or not.

Blue&White
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Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:31 pm

My point of bringing that up was only to provide context to Grower's question. His frustration with Trump supporters is not unique to Trump supporters.

Regarding Hoda Muthana, my take is that she was born in the US, raised in the US, and the US government conceded she was a US citizen when they issued her a US passport. That's what a passport does - it states your country of citizenship. I do not understand how the US government can now legally prevent her from returning to the United States. If she violated US federal or state laws, then arrest her and try her in a court with competent jurisdiction at either the federal or state level. And, if she is found guilty, then administer the sentence set forth by a duly constituted legislator and signed into law by a properly elected executive. But, this notion that we are going to make shit up along the way because we don't like certain people is really, really concerning.

And, just getting back to my argument with appoo - my point to him at the time was once you let the genie of executive abuse out of the bottle, he doesn't go back in when someone you don't like gets elected. Once that genie is out, he is out.

Oh, and btw - some Republicans DID raise some concerns about what Obama did. So did some Democrats. There were a few people from both parties that made a very public stink over it. And, there were some editorials that made the point that if Bush did this the left and the Democrats would be apoplectic. But, beyond some shouting from the cheap seats, no one really tried to do anything about it. Despite some of the yelling, I do not recall a single member of the House or Senate trying to take anything to the floor to prevent Obama from killing American citizens that made it to his secret list. There is talk about impeaching Trump for far, far less than what Obama did. I do not recall hearing the "I" word once after Obama killed a US citizen. Not a single utterance of it from any elected official.
Is it baseball season yet?

Nat@PSU
Posts: 309
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:56 pm

Re: Politics

Postby Nat@PSU » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:18 pm

Anyone see Trump at CPAC? Can we at least all acknowledge how batshit crazy this all is?

It's exhausting.
- Nat

Let's Go State!!

LioninVa
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Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:40 pm

I elected not to watch his speech. I read that it clocked in at just over two hours, and I can’t imagine trying to follow his stream of thought for that long. I read a few quotes, and I am not surprised. Same old red meat for the base, regardless of reality.

On a slightly separate note, I saw an article that claimd CPAC, and the Republican Party by extension, have erased the Bush era from their philosophy of not their history. I have no problem with someone with conservative values, just as I have no problem with those on the liberal side. But this Cult of Trump, as some call it (the folks who post memes rationalizing his infidelities or other less than Christian attitudes simply to clean up DC) really have me scratching my head.

sameoldlama
Posts: 782
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:43 am

Re: Politics

Postby sameoldlama » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:38 am

Nat@PSU wrote:Anyone see Trump at CPAC? Can we at least all acknowledge how batshit crazy this all is?

It's exhausting.


DT no longer holds a monopoly on crazy - he may be the Tom Brady of crazy but AOC is clearly the favorite for ROY, Bernie for comeback POY and Harris is vying for MVP.

About 25 years ago the Rs had a problem with the religious right having way to much control in the party - every candidate they put up was subject to a litmus test of pledging to be hard right anti abortion, anti gay and put God into every facet of public life. It turned off moderates and cost them elections. They've had to try to balance still appealing to religious conservatives without letting them be the driving force of their agenda. The Ds face that challenge now with celebrity/academic elite who say such crazy Emmert and pushes so much nonsense it leaves Ds exposed. They need to move away from that being the voice of their party.

But in my new spirit of not getting to worked up about things and to follow up on Crow's clowns and jokers reference may I propose - since there are many pop culture buffs of this board - we see if we can find a pop culture reference - say a famous quote or song lyric - that will accurately capture the POTUS race for the next two years.

My first offerings:
1. My advice to you is to start drinking heavily
2. Guys I got a bad feeling on this one, alright, I mean got a bad feeling, I don't think I'm going to make it out of here. You understand what I'm saying to you.
3. Looks like I picked the wrong election cycle to quit sniffing glue
Wendall : That's very linear Sheriff
Ed Tom : Age will flatten a man Wendall

Blue&White
Posts: 3199
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:56 am

2. Guys I got a bad feeling on this one, alright, I mean got a bad feeling, I don't think I'm going to make it out of here. You understand what I'm saying to you.

Funny enough, when I got promoted into my current position I used the metaphor of after that battle the officer telling Sgt. O'Neil "you've got 1st platoon" and the look on his face when he finds out he's not leaving.
Is it baseball season yet?

Nat@PSU
Posts: 309
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:56 pm

Re: Politics

Postby Nat@PSU » Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:58 pm

Rhah: Barnes has been shot seven times and he ain’t dead, does that mean anything to you, huh? Barnes ain’t meant to die! The only thing that can kill Barnes is Barnes.

This Platoon quote about Sargent Barnes is strangely applicable to Donald Trump.

On everything else politically? We can pretty much conclude that I don't agree with anything that llama or dad says and I'm pretty much in line with BDub's response (or future response if he hasn't responded yet). Haha, there I hope I covered all my bases.

Hope all enjoy what looks to be snowy Monday. Perfect start to spring sports season!!
- Nat

Let's Go State!!