Politics

sameoldlama
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:43 am

Re: Politics

Postby sameoldlama » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:58 am

This is Trump's fatal flaw of not always thinking things through - I'm sure when he was acting on his every impulse and indulging every vice years ago he never stopped and thought - I may become POTUS one day and this could come back to haunt me.

He now faces the Herculean task of just ignoring the gossip attacks and instead focusing on policy matters and doing so in a more professional manner.

If DT and Congress can work out a deal on immigration policy (we might not all like every aspect of it) and then actually follow it at least we can all say "OK we have a set of rules to live by instead of the haphazard system that's been in place the last 3 decades", most people will shrug off the other crap.

If you do your job - immigration reform, the economy, crime, - on practical matters that impact people they will give a lot of leeway on personal stuff. Obama was the opposite - he struggled to get meaningful things done that made the average American's life better but he was a likable guy.

If you are a jerk you best be competent at your job and show tangible benefit otherwise people can't figure out why you should be kept around.
Wendall : That's very linear Sheriff
Ed Tom : Age will flatten a man Wendall

psu_dad
Posts: 1257
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:24 pm

Any deal on immigration policy that doesn't include a way to secure the border is a waste of time, because the people sneaking across the border don't give a rat's ass about our immigration policy.
Fire Alex Cora. (On hold pending further review)

LioninVa
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:43 pm

Securing the border, in a financially responsible and conservative manner is not practical. Maybe they can focus on areas that are easier to cross but they will find another way to get in.

sameoldlama
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:43 am

Re: Politics

Postby sameoldlama » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:12 pm

The reason our border hasn't been secure the past three decades - IMO - goes back to not linking rewards and consequences to actions and decisions. The consequences for illegal entry and for company's hiring illegal immigrant labor haven't outweighed the rewards.

You don't need to build a wall and I agree it is not economically or practically achievable.

If you put food outside your door and you have lots of stray cats in your yard what is the solution. Is it to build a fence? How about stop putting food out?

Enforce labor laws preventing the use of illegal labor and make the fines hurt to the point companies will no longer take the risk - to the point if multiple offenses occur pull the operating license.
Stop issuing social benefits to illegal aliens and direct it to legal immigrants and native born citizens who qualify.

Reward people who follow the law. Punish people who don't. I'll say it again - Pavlov's dog figured it out, people can too.
Wendall : That's very linear Sheriff
Ed Tom : Age will flatten a man Wendall

LioninVa
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 am

Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:31 pm

I agree with that completely, lama!

psu_dad
Posts: 1257
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:37 pm

Enforce labor laws preventing the use of illegal labor and make the fines hurt to the point companies will no longer take the risk - to the point if multiple offenses occur pull the operating license.
Stop issuing social benefits to illegal aliens and direct it to legal immigrants and native born citizens who qualify.


I agree with both those measures. And I think pigs will probably fly before that happens.

We went through this same nonsense 40 years ago. The Simpson-Mazzoli Act was (then) the largest illegal immigrant amnesty program in history. About 3 million illegal immigrants received green cards as a result. The act included "penalties" for hiring illegals, with spotty and ineffective enforcement. So what happened? Illegal immigration subsequently increased. If we do this again, we should just change our name to the United States of Poop-for-Brains.

This doesn't seem like rocket science. First you figure out a way to keep water out of the basement, THEN (and only then) do you replace the carpeting down there. But instead, we have Congress arguing about new carpeting.
Fire Alex Cora. (On hold pending further review)

Carl Spackler
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:22 pm

Re: Politics

Postby Carl Spackler » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:23 pm

psu_dad wrote:Enforce labor laws preventing the use of illegal labor and make the fines hurt to the point companies will no longer take the risk - to the point if multiple offenses occur pull the operating license.
Stop issuing social benefits to illegal aliens and direct it to legal immigrants and native born citizens who qualify.


I agree with both those measures. And I think pigs will probably fly before that happens.

We went through this same nonsense 40 years ago. The Simpson-Mazzoli Act was (then) the largest illegal immigrant amnesty program in history. About 3 million illegal immigrants received green cards as a result. The act included "penalties" for hiring illegals, with spotty and ineffective enforcement. So what happened? Illegal immigration subsequently increased. If we do this again, we should just change our name to the United States of Poop-for-Brains.

This doesn't seem like rocket science. First you figure out a way to keep water out of the basement, THEN (and only then) do you replace the carpeting down there. But instead, we have Congress arguing about new carpeting.


Spot on dad. Enforcing our laws is a good idea, maybe we will do it some day, as a trial. Other than traffic laws (revenue enhancers) or some general police issues we don't enforce laws a bit consistently if at all. I was required to have new hires provide all sorts of ID to prove they were legally here, etc. We constantly pitched applications which had the same SS#. You would think they would get a better fake.

And llama, loved the Herculean placement in your last post. I actually worked at Hercules Inc. for nine years. My secretary would do the final copy off my monthly commentary for the club newsletter. I used the work Herculean one time describing a current project. The sec. argued with me for an hour that Herculean wasn't a word. I told her to pick up her dictionary to no avail. Finally I ordered her to put the word in the document and proofed the newsletter to make sure she hadn't removed it or had one of her crony sec.'s do so. I'm reminded of the incident every time I see the word. Thanks for the memories.
So I got that going for me...which is nice. It's a cross between Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent and Northern California Sensimilla so you can play 36 holes on it,take it home at night and get stoned to the begesses belt

sameoldlama
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:43 am

Re: Politics

Postby sameoldlama » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:49 pm

Carl
Every now and then we have to culture ourselves up and a little and mix in a literary reference amongst the movie quotes. :)

Maintenance and control discipline is an issue that extends beyond government policy - I see it in my industry with training programs and manufacturing execution - you lose discipline and skip actions / take shortcuts and slowly your performance degrades and you have unintended negative results.

Planning takes vision and intelligence.
Implementation takes patience and organization.
Long term execution takes skill and patience. And a really good auditor to keep you honest.

All three of them require full management commitment.
Wendall : That's very linear Sheriff
Ed Tom : Age will flatten a man Wendall

Blue&White
Posts: 1900
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:29 pm

I thought, under the Bush administration, there was a wholesale change in how hiring was done. Employers are now required to get proof of residency or citizenship with I9s and what not. The days of hotels being able to outsource their cleaning crews and turn a blind eye to the number of illegals cleaning their room were, I thought, over. I'm sure the enforcement rate is not 100%, but I had the impression that a lot of that was improved. Is that not the case?

I'm not making a point. I honestly don't know. I thought a lot of this was being enforced now.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

psu_dad
Posts: 1257
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:57 pm

Nationwide, unauthorized immigrants are clustered in a few occupations, notably farming, fishing and forestry (26 percent of the workforce), building and grounds (17 percent), and construction and mining (14 percent). They comprise 24 percent of all groundskeepers, 23 percent of domestic workers and 20 percent of those in clothing manufacture.

In addition, they have carved out niches in certain relatively well-paid construction trades. They hold 34 percent of all jobs in drywall installation, 27 percent in roofing and 24 percent in painting.
-- Washington Post

Does that sound like serious enforcement?
Fire Alex Cora. (On hold pending further review)