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Locker Room Random Thoughts

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Re: Locker Room Random Thoughts

Postby psu_dad » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:34 am

I don't disagree with any of that, except I'm not taking any "blame" for this. If colleges across the country went to the Ivy League paradigm and started recruiting students who could play football instead of football players, it wouldn't faze me a bit. Televised press conferences for 18-year-old football players announcing their choice of college make me cringe.
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Re: Locker Room Random Thoughts

Postby Blue&White » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:44 am

Thanks Nat. I saw the hook on the bate and decided to swim by for a change but glad someone else came up, took the bite, and called bullshit.
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Re: Locker Room Random Thoughts

Postby reincarnatedlama » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:23 pm

Just because you and Nat can't understand it doesn't make it bullshit.

I certainly believe Nat when he says parents from all backgrounds try and bargain there way out of a problem they created themselves, bet that happens with traffic tickets and just about anytime people come afoul of the rules. That's human nature. However the institutions in which we have vested our authority aren't supposed to let that slide and more importantly they are expected to apply laws and rules fairly and uniformly. When people see laws and rules are not applied uniformly they stop following laws and rules.

If you haven't observed that progressive liberals have different sets of rules based on race, gender, ethnicity, social and economic class - well I can't help you. And much of this is disengaging people from the basic reality of cause and effect. Many of us lament the loss of personal accountability in our culture - that is the very foundation that the Democratic Party ran the Presidential election platform on.

If we accept the premise that we fans are partly to blame for the entitled attitude of football players then you must have bought into Emmert's contention of PSU's football culture and that the school, the program, the coaches, administrators and alums created an atmosphere in which Sandusky's crimes were covered up for the sake of the football program. I kind of recall most people on this board rebutting that notion.

We can debate more now or wait 10 years. Reality eventually settles all arguments.
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Re: Locker Room Random Thoughts

Postby Blue&White » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:46 pm

The idea that progressive liberals are responsible for entitled athletes is just so absurd, it's barely worth responding to. This phenomena is as old as sport itself. For as long as there have been people getting into arenas to watch people compete at something, the men who did the competing were treated differently and better. You make it sound like this stuff never happened until <gasp> parents got over protective of their kids. It's complete and utter nonsense and not based on any objective reality.

Anyway, I've been reading about the decision of McCafferty from Stanford sitting out the bowl to prep for the NFL draft. I saw a comment on here about it and someone mentioned insurance. Now that I've read up on this a little, I'm calling BS on the insurance argument too. I think this is exactly the right move for him. These kids are used in every way possible. Why should he risk injury, and hurting his long term financial prospects, to make money for the Sun Bowl, Stanford and the networks? Who was the ND player last year who got hurt in the bowl game and went from a sure thing top 10 draft pick to sometime in the 2nd round? I read that cost him $10M in guaranteed money. Insurance doesn't make that up. I have no idea what this kids draft prospects really are, but I absolutely get him sitting out a meaningless game to better his prospect. The idea that these kids should work for nothing and be the only selfless ones in the sport is ridiculous.
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Re: Locker Room Random Thoughts

Postby pennst92 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:59 pm

That's if Lloyds or Zurich or some other underwriting wholesaler will actually insure him for disability - it's grown increasingly difficult for sports to insure their legends, much less some no name who offers very little profit in return. At least professional teams can pay the premiums...who's paying McCafferty's premium? His folks? His agent? Doubt it.
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Re: Locker Room Random Thoughts

Postby Nat@PSU » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:34 am

reincarnatedlama wrote:Just because you and Nat can't understand it doesn't make it bullshit.


It's not that we don't understand what you're saying, we just disagree with it. :roll: :roll:


reincarnatedlama wrote:If we accept the premise that we fans are partly to blame for the entitled attitude of football players then you must have bought into Emmert's contention of PSU's football culture and that the school, the program, the coaches, administrators and alums created an atmosphere in which Sandusky's crimes were covered up for the sake of the football program. I kind of recall most people on this board rebutting that notion.

We can debate more now or wait 10 years. Reality eventually settles all arguments.


Sorry, I'm just getting back to this now but this argument doesn't hold water for me. I was commenting far more about college football on the whole than specifically Penn State and it's a far leap from saying "we've contributed to a culture that celebrates athletes to the point that they think different standards apply to them" and saying "we've contributed to a culture that systemically covers up child abuse to make sure our football program isn't harmed." That kind of hyperbole is EXACTLY the issue I had with the narrative created during the scandal.

Neither BDub nor I have contested that many of these athletes behave with an attitude entitlement and disregard for others, but I vehemently disagree that this is the direct outcome of a "liberal progressive mindset". Hogwash. Frankly stated, I find the inconsistency with which many people call for personal accountability laughable. These outcries tend to align pretty strongly with one's personal political belief set.

To be clear, I'm not accusing Llama specifically of this, but making a much more broad observation.
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Re: Locker Room Random Thoughts

Postby pennst92 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:16 pm

I run the risk of this bleeding over into politics, but there are about 5 different debates going on in the various posts here.

1- I do not subscribe to liberal politics. I do believe a lot of today's issues are at least partially caused by the social experimentation that well meaning progressives seem to think is their due. However, I don't know that I would take a singular issue like the Minny case and make it bigger than it has to be. IIRC, the main player in the Vanderbilt rape case was a white, upper middle class kid who came from a conservative family. Does that paint all conservatives as rapist enablers?

2- I would argue that 'we' (the fans) ARE part of the problem of athlete entitlements. Maybe not you or me, but 'fans' in general. This is why kids at Ohio State got free tattoos and cars, kids at Florida State were able to steal clothes, kids at USC got hundreds of thousands of dollars in undeclared income. That's still different than rape, whether that's Sandusky or the Minny case, and I would argue against the notion that 'we' are responsible' for criminal sexual offenders. I issue this statement carefully, as nothing (to my knowledge) has been proven yet in the Minny case, but substitute the aforementioned Vandy case if you wish where several have been found guilty (and, of course, Sandusky).

3- To an earlier point: corruption in sports is as old as sport itself. I suspect gladiators took the fall in the Roman Coliseum rather than die at the end of a blade...and got paid handsomely for the effort.

4- We should be able to agree that there is a problem. We should also be willing to try different ideas to see if they'll correct the problem without always resorting to 'absolutes' when making our points. Dogma is unhealthy. Using politics to make a point can always be turned aside with straw man arguments without actually discussing the issue at hand. When that happens, the point gets lost and nothing gets accomplished.

5- I actually forgot #5, but I really like numbered lists so I included it here.
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Re: Locker Room Random Thoughts

Postby Shore Lion » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:17 am

Saw a really interesting stat over the weekend. Since the 2005 season PSU has not had a losing season. Guess how many other schools can say that?

Eight, that's it, just eight. And the fact that PSU is one of those eight is truly amazing considering what the NCAA tried to do to the program. And no, Alabama is not on that list and neither is Ohio State. In fact Wisconsin is the only other BIG school on the list. When you really take time to think about it that's pretty impressive.
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Re: Locker Room Random Thoughts

Postby Blue&White » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:40 am

It is amazing. For al the talk about how Joe lost the ability to win towards the end, once he got past the Dark Years it's fair to say he learned how not to lose. We had 2 really good teams (and arguably one great team) in 05 and 08 (the 05 team being great) and some teams that maybe under performed a little, but still kept their head above water.

There is a number of people who tried to kill this program off and it just kept coming back.

I'll never be ok with how O'Brien left but he deserves a lot of credit for keeping the whole thing together. Franklin finally showed what he can do this past year, but credit for their being a PSU football goes to Bill O'Brien and the senior players he inherited when he came on. All those guys should have their names up in Beaver Stadium.
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Re: Locker Room Random Thoughts

Postby reincarnatedlama » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:43 am

Since it was close by in this thread an update on the Minny football issue - a school review board recommended following:

4 of the players expelled
2 have their one year suspensions upheld
4 have their suspensions lifted

From the article (which lists players by name) I couldn't link them to the "A1, A2, A3....) references from the report.
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