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Big 10 Championship in Game

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Re: Big 10 Championship in Game

Postby Blue&White » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:56 am

I don't think we will get to an 8 team playoff because it will diminish the bowls and they aren't going to sit quietly and let that happen. It was a huge fight to get to this point. I doubt it changes at least in the near term.

I'm also not sure why an 8 team playoff is a panacea. There are going to be teams on the back end who get left out and it won't take long before people are screaming for a 16 game playoff. Again, even with the NCAA Tournament of 64 teams, there are always teams who feel the process was too arbitrary and they should have gone over someone else. There is no magic number that automatically gets it right.

I think it sucks that we didn't get in, but I can't honestly say it would have been fair for us to get in over, say, Washington. Are we really more deserving? It's completely subjective. I do think we deserved it over OSU because we beat them on the field. That is not subjective. But, they are the media darlings and there is no denying they are a good team.

I'm over it and I'm looking forward to the Rose Bowl. I don't think I've enjoyed a season this much since 2005. Our non-selection doesn't change that at all for me. I wish we had a shot at Alabama but I'll happily take the Rose Bowl.
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Re: Big 10 Championship in Game

Postby gmay10 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:59 am

We are going to get to an 8 team playoff- it makes way more sense. If not 8, I could see 6 with the top 2 teams having a bye. If we have 8 teams we can have the top 4 teams have homes games too. That would be fun!
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Re: Big 10 Championship in Game

Postby gmay10 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:01 am

Dad- Yes, we NEED a champion of D1. I am a very competitive person and sorry if winning the Big 10 wouldn't be good enough in my mind. I want to rule the world!! Or at least the United States
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Re: Big 10 Championship in Game

Postby psu_dad » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:03 am

I don't think we will get to an 8 team playoff because it will diminish the bowls and they aren't going to sit quietly and let that happen.

They've already diminished the bowls, so I don't think that's an issue. As I understand it, the two first-round games of the playoff series are rotated among the six "major" bowl games ( Rose, Sugar, Orange, etc.). In years that one of these bowls is not hosting a playoff game, they revert back to their traditional format (like the Rose Bowl this year). If you went to four first-round games, I presume the major bowls would still host them. Who knows.

Someone earlier made a comment about perhaps having to shorten the regular season to accommodate three rounds of playoffs. THAT would be an issue, because everyone would lose one game just to benefit the 8 teams that get to the playoffs.

Dad- Yes, we NEED a champion of D1.

You don't need one. You want one. There's a difference.
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Re: Big 10 Championship in Game

Postby Shore Lion » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:28 am

I played Division 3 college football. I was fortunate enough to play on 2 playoff teams. At that time (in the 80's) there were 16 playoff teams and we played a 10 game regular season schedule. Now D3 has 32 teams for the playoff. Of course there are about 250 D3 teams compared to about 128 for D1. You could do an expanded playoff (beyond 8 teams) but it would almost certainly have to come at the expense of regular season games. That's not going to happen. There is too much money to be made during the regular season that a sea change like that would occur that would benefit a much smaller group of the entire population of schools.

It may (and probably will) get to 8 at some point. You're not going to have Power 5 Conferences continue to support a playoff system that will continually leave one of them out every year.
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Re: Big 10 Championship in Game

Postby Blue&White » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:40 am

Shore makes a good point about the Power 5 conferences. An expanded playoff may happen, but I don't see it happening in the near term. It took years to get to this 4 team run-off. And, in all honesty, I think it's fine. Yes, Penn State got screwed this year, but someone always gets screwed. We went to a 4 team playoff because when it was the BCS and it was a 2 team championship game, there was often a 3rd team with an equal claim who got screwed. So, we go to 4 teams and now there is a 5th, and arguably a 6th, team on the outside looking in saying "we got screwed". So, if we go to 8 teams, there is going to be a team or 2 on the outside looking in saying "we need more teams because we got screwed". Anytime you draw a line, you are going to end up impacting someone. It's inevitable. You're never going to satisfy everyone. The NCAA 64 team tournament proves that.

I'm really indifferent about the whole thing. If they go to an 8 team playoff, I really won't care, but I'm not really upset over a 4 team playoff either. And, while I'm unhappy this year about it, and think they can take steps to fix some of the problems in the current system, in general I think 4 teams is fine. They should clean up the selection process, though. Having these polls start to early really works against teams who don't get early love. If the first poll came out the Sunday after we beat OSU, you think maybe we are ranked a little better? Impossible to say, but I think it's likely.
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Re: Big 10 Championship in Game

Postby LioninVa » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:59 am

I am torn on the way things shook out yesterday. I am upset that the criteria used seems inconsistent both from a (slightly) historical point of view and for this season alone. I mean, conference championships and head to head wins used to matter; strength of schedule used to matter; early losses could be overcome in years past. Not this year... tOSU is praised for tough OOC games but Washington's OOC schedule doesn't matter; We are hammered for losing to an 8-4 team but a loss to that same 8-4 team by Clemson doesn't matter. It doesn't make much sense to me, but I am obviously just a bit biased. While I would have loved a shot at the playoff, I am excited that the team gets to play in the Rose Bowl.

With that said, doubling the field to 8 only adds one more weekend. I could be am additional home game for the higher seeded team, which is more money for the school and community even if/when the NCAA decides to take more than its fair share. This idea still allows all the other lower tier bowls to go on as well.
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Re: Big 10 Championship in Game

Postby psu_dad » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:17 am

Penn State got screwed this year, but someone always gets screwed.

Yep, because the definition of "getting screwed" just evolves.

The entire argument of going to playoffs originally started because of the old system of polls deciding the "mythical national champion". Some times you got lucky and the consensus #1 and #2 teams met in a bowl game, but more often than not the polls decided the "champion". And the team that ended up #2 in the polls inevitably felt they got screwed, especially if they were undefeated and their fans thought they were the best team.

That problem is mostly gone and has been replaced by a different one. Now, you have 2-loss teams feeling like they got screwed. Not because anyone seriously believes they're the best team in the country, but because they didn't make the playoffs. There's no end to this.
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Re: Big 10 Championship in Game

Postby LioninVa » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:27 am

psu_dad wrote: That problem is mostly gone and has been replaced by a different one. Now, you have 2-loss teams feeling like they got screwed. Not because anyone seriously believes they're the best team in the country, but because they didn't make the playoffs. There's no end to this.


The problem is that the National Champion is no longer Mythical and the players are determined by a committee. Add to that a limit of 4 players, and the level of screwing is worse. I mean, if you are the first team left out of a 64 or 66 team playoff, odds are very long that you were going to win anyway. If you are first out of a 4 or 8 team group, your argument is greater that you have a shot.

Not that many could beat that semi-pro team in Tuscaloosa.
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Re: Big 10 Championship in Game

Postby Blue&White » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:28 am

There's no end to this.

That's been my point all along. You're always going to have some team on the bubble who feels they were not treated fairly. I think PSU should have gotten in over OSU and maybe Washington, but I can't tell you with any certainty we are better than those teams (although, on the field, we beat Ohio State). There is no system that will satisfy everyone and changing it to 8 teams won't solve that problem.

I am really focused more on what we accomplished and what we have to look forward to than what we didn't get. We're going to the Rose Bowl. If you had told Penn State fans back in August that you had a glimpse into the future and we were playing in the Rose Bowl, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single PSU fan that didn't jump for joy at that. I realize the details of the journey matter, but everyone would be fine with the outcome. I'm still fine with it. I would much preferred a playoff bid but we didn't get it. It's a subjective standard and it doesn't at all mitigate what a great season this has been. At least, not for me it doesn't.

Whatever, I'm really done with the topic. There is always going to be a group that argues we should be in, the playoffs should be deeper, etc. and my being satisfied with the outcome won't change those opinions. Time to move on, at least for me.
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