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The "Rape Culture"/Sexual Assault in America

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Re: The "Rape Culture"/Sexual Assault in America

Postby Blue&White » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:22 pm

I don't think you lack empathy but, on this issue, based on your comments, I think you are lacking some perspective.
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Re: The "Rape Culture"/Sexual Assault in America

Postby psu_dad » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:03 pm

Well, I'm just a precocious 12-year-old pretending to be a grown-up, so a lack of perspective is understandable.

You sound a little like my SIL. I love her to death, but she is convinced that any issue, no matter how complex or nuanced, has one (and only one) side. And if you're not firmly on that side (invariably hers) then you must be "flawed" in some way.

This is WAY more complicated than "men just have to change, period". And it's naive to think that alone is going to work.
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Re: The "Rape Culture"/Sexual Assault in America

Postby Carl Spackler » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:12 pm

psu_dad wrote:Well, I'm just a precocious 12-year-old pretending to be a grown-up, so a lack of perspective is understandable.

You sound a little like my SIL. I love her to death, but she is convinced that any issue, no matter how complex or nuanced, has one (and only one) side. And if you're not firmly on that side (invariably hers) then you must be "flawed" in some way.

This is WAY more complicated than "men just have to change, period". And it's naive to think that alone is going to work.



I fell into this conversation very late and all the great dumb ideas have been utilized. Where does one go from there?

I long for dad and mrs dad's tiny font conversations as they alone would have solved this issue. If the mrs. found me "lying in bed with a nubile young lady the first thought through her mind would always be" it was innocent and as slick willie noted, it wasn't sex. I'm just sure she would see it that way as did hillary.

Nearly all statistics are leaning one way or another depending on who is surveyed and more so, what questions were offered, how the questions were worded, etc. as one can produce any result ordered by the customer given time and thoughtful word smithing of the survey questions.

Not to totally drop off the subject line but..............

Our son called us last Sat. evening, a very unusual time, asked the mrs. to find me and put the phone on speaker (which is a gargantuan ordeal) to tell us he just proposed to a lovely young lady and she accepted. We were the first phone call they made. So, I'm becoming 60, a grandparent and possibly seeing our son married all in the same year or so. Don't ask me any questions, it is all to confusing anymore. Plus, I completed the billion dollar dental implant of my # 30 molar today, down town with new shoes.
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Re: The "Rape Culture"/Sexual Assault in America

Postby Blue&White » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:23 pm

Reading my post again (which I wrote quickly), it comes off as condescending, which was not at all my intention. So, I apologize for that.

Second, I didn't say it wasn't complicated and I made the point that when booze is involved, it gets grey. And, no where did I say "men just have to change, period". There was a little bit of flack over the weekend at, I guess, the Miss USA pageant because one of the contestants suggested women should learn to defend themselves so they could fight off an attacker and I guess twitter lit up with "how about we teach men not to rape" comments, and accusations of "blaming the victim". I think that is ridiculous. Suggesting to someone that they learn to defend themselves is not the same as blaming them if they get attacked and can't fend off their attacker.

In that vein, obviously a female inviting a guy into her bed and thinking you won't have sex is asking for trouble and is not a terribly bright thing to do. Similiary, I have a right to walk through a bad neighborhood, at night, holding a large wad of money but I'm still being pretty stupid if I do that. That said, if someone robs me, whether I was stupid or not, it's a crime and the guy who robs me should still go to jail.

A woman who makes a bad choice doesn't deserve to be raped over it. She may have put herself in a position where an assault - or an unwanted advance - was extremely likely but that doesn't mean she in any way deserved it. What Will's article is implying is that she did, and it's not a crime. And, he goes further to say she's only reporting it as a crime because of the "status" it gives her.

I perfectly understand why women's groups around the country had a viceral reaction to that.
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Re: The "Rape Culture"/Sexual Assault in America

Postby Blue&White » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:34 pm

Carl - congrats! And, interesting thread choice to tell us. :D
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Re: The "Rape Culture"/Sexual Assault in America

Postby psu_dad » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:10 pm

So, I apologize for that.


I don't accept your apology. I'm tired of you and appoo always picking on me. I have feelings, you know.

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Re: The "Rape Culture"/Sexual Assault in America

Postby Carl Spackler » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:02 pm

Blue&White wrote:Carl - congrats! And, interesting thread choice to tell us. :D



Well............well.................well................................never mind. ;)
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Re: The "Rape Culture"/Sexual Assault in America

Postby SouthernLion » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:12 pm

Well, Carl, I don't know if you're officially in the 'Golden Years,' but this year seems pretty golden for you. Congrats! (Apparently it's a golden year for your dentist, too, but that goes without saying ;) ).

I do have a daughter, single & in her 20's. We have always stressed to her - and our son for that matter - that when you put yourself in a compromising position such as drunkeness or riding in a car full of knuckleheads, whatever, the chances increase for something bad to happen to you. And when it does happen, it doesn't matter whose fault it is, in terms of the harm it causes the innocents. I agree that a large number of young men have a stupid streak that can lead to bad consequences. I've been there myself, but fortunately not in the last 3-4 decades. And ALL women have the right to say 'NO' to any man. Those men that don't stop should be prosecuted, clearly. But I have less sympathy for anyone knowingly putting themselves in a potentially bad situation, man or woman - which has absolutely nothing to do with the question of arresting and prosecuting the perpetrator.

I read George Will quite a bit. I think his frustration with a lot of the 'progressive' nonsense that threatens this country boiled over somewhat inappropriately in this article. I'm guessing that if he could take this one back and rewrite it (or just ditch it), he would.
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Re: The "Rape Culture"/Sexual Assault in America

Postby Blue&White » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:33 pm

I think that's a fair analysis and you well articulated the point I had been trying to make.

As for Will, I used to read him every week but I stopped a couple of years ago. If I spot a column I will read it But I no longer seek him out.
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Re: The "Rape Culture"/Sexual Assault in America

Postby appoo » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:52 pm

SouthernLion wrote:Well, Carl, I don't know if you're officially in the 'Golden Years,' but this year seems pretty golden for you. Congrats! (Apparently it's a golden year for your dentist, too, but that goes without saying ;) ).

I do have a daughter, single & in her 20's. We have always stressed to her - and our son for that matter - that when you put yourself in a compromising position such as drunkeness or riding in a car full of knuckleheads, whatever, the chances increase for something bad to happen to you. And when it does happen, it doesn't matter whose fault it is, in terms of the harm it causes the innocents. I agree that a large number of young men have a stupid streak that can lead to bad consequences. I've been there myself, but fortunately not in the last 3-4 decades. And ALL women have the right to say 'NO' to any man. Those men that don't stop should be prosecuted, clearly. But I have less sympathy for anyone knowingly putting themselves in a potentially bad situation, man or woman - which has absolutely nothing to do with the question of arresting and prosecuting the perpetrator.

I read George Will quite a bit. I think his frustration with a lot of the 'progressive' nonsense that threatens this country boiled over somewhat inappropriately in this article. I'm guessing that if he could take this one back and rewrite it (or just ditch it), he would.


So what's a potentially bad situation? Getting drunk at a party? Running without pepper spray? Sleeping in the same bed with someone you thought you could trust? Going to a homecoming party? Going to a prom party? Hanging out with a Frat brother? Men can basically do what they want...and woman have to behave differently for fear of those men. It's complete bullshit. Young woman should be allowed to enjoy their youth, just like young men do - without fear of getting raped or assaulted.

It absolutely matters who's fault it is. There is no degree of stupidity that a girl has to reach, to be "blamed" for sexual assault. They should be able to walk around butt naked In a college town, doing shots of everclear every 30 minutes - and so long as they refuse to consent, no one should touch them...and it wouldn't be their fault if someone did.
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