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Politics

Postby Blue&White » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:52 pm

I have nothing political to post, but thought we needed a thread. Otherwise, the Random Thoughts thread becomes far less random.
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Re: Politics

Postby appoo » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:06 pm

I was doing my best to avoid the political slant of things, and just keep it to general current events. But I suppose this is a better idea. I was actually considering starting a thread about Public Policy, because more often than not we delved into the policy rather than politics.
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Re: Politics

Postby LioninVa » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:17 pm

I have said this before, obviously not here, but we are in a no win situation regarding the middle east. And this is not a reflection of this administration or any previous one, we are simply in a bad spot.

First, the extremeists use passages to justify death to any nonbeliever (or believer of a false diety). Likewise, christian fundamentalists use passages to justify exactly the same. Personally, if a supreme being told me to kill in his name I would give up that religion.

Next, they have something that we very much want and need. This was mentiond in the random thread, but is crucial.

So, we can't turn the region into a glass parking lot even if it was justified (which it is not). Instead, we try to use the combination of force and diplomacy to get them to see things out way. My guess is that those in power or control over there will never see things like we do because they are just a bit extreme. They are fine with us giving them support or money, ut want us to get the heck out of thier land. As soon as we leave, be it tomorrow or in 25 years, things will be just like they were before.
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Re: Politics

Postby LaVarLB11 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:59 pm

Personally and I think this may sound efffed up but I feel we need to go into a period of isolation from the rest of the world, fix our problems and let the rest of the world try to figure it out. China would be screwed without us, plus they are cooking the books. "The Euro Zone," has one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel.
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Re: Politics

Postby appoo » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:34 pm

A nuanced look at what's fueling the protests against the US Film in the middle east

It asks an interesting question though, what's more important - the freedom of speech, or the freedom from being bigoted against and demeaned? It's sort of parallel to our own racial issues domestically.

There's never any justification for violence, but I'm fine with the peaceful protests. Bigotry is NEVER ok, and you can't just hide behind the first amendment when you decide to be bigoted.
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Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:34 pm

appoo wrote:[It asks an interesting question though, what's more important - the freedom of speech, or the freedom from being bigoted against and demeaned? It's sort of parallel to our own racial issues domestically.


That's not even close. It's like asking if someone would prefer a full-body massage from Salma Hayak or Rosie O'Donnell.

Free speech trumps hurt feelings. If you hear something you don't like, then (1) develop thicker skin, (2) ignore it if it comes from an ignoramus, or (3) put on your Big-boy Pants and illuminate it with the Light of Truth. This is the 21st Friggin Century. The Age of the Inter-Continental Railroad. Civilized people shouldn't go icky-balooky over words uttered by nincompoops. That response should be reserved for knuckleheads in Congress and regulars on The Jersey Shore.

We devolving as a culture fast enough, you don't need to hasten it by tossing Free Speech out the window.
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Re: Politics

Postby appoo » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:54 pm

people should always loudly protest bigotry, and I'm tired of people hiding behind "Freedom of speech" when they get rhetorically attacked for uttering said bigotry. It's especially annoying when people accuse those of condemning the bigotry with "apologizing for American values", because apparently anyone is allowed to be a bigoted douchdbag and not face any consequences.
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Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:36 pm

I'm lost. How exactly does one "hide" behind the right to free speech? You can't suppress others from responding to your speech with their own.
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:41 pm

I don't get that either. The right to speech does not in any way include a right to be free from criticism or consequences. "Freedom of speech" means freedom from the government stopping you from speaking or imposing consequences for saying something that isn't popular. It has no deeper meaning than that. I don't get this "hiding behind" the right either. You have it, period. And, you should. Sometimes it leads to people saying stupid things. And life goes on.
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Re: Politics

Postby appoo » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:51 pm

I'm lost. How exactly does one "hide" behind the right to free speech? You can't suppress others from responding to your speech with their own.


When the embassy in Cairo condemned the video in their statement, they got attacked - by elected congressman, and a nominee for the President of the United states and hell even the President of the United States and his SecState said they disagree with the statement, probably for purely political reasons - for apologizing for American values. When I said "hiding behind the right to free speech", that's what I meant. People at the highest level of our government defend bigotry - depending on who is being bigoted - strongly. Maybe "hiding" wasn't the right phrase for me to use, but that's what I was talking about. When you can sit there and produced horribly wrong bigoted media, created purely to incite hatred, and then have protest of that content criticized, there's a problem with that.
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