2019 Recruiting Thread

Blue&White
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Re: 2019 Recruiting Thread

Postby Blue&White » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:02 pm

Dave Jones on the NCAA recruiting portal

First off, I agree with his take. I think players have been taken advantage of for years. I think it's ridiculous they have to give 3 years of free play before than can try to take their services to a paid job in the NFL. And, I am all for anything that frees them to move around as they see fit and do what they think is best for them.

Second, he made a comment that contradicts what I thought about the rules:

The new rules instituted in October have given freedom to the players they never had before. They may talk to agents whenever they like. They don’t need permission from a coach or administrator to transfer from a school. They don’t need to restrict their transfers to schools outside their original conferences. They don’t even necessarily have to have graduated to play the next season. Just about everything is game.


More than three-fourths of the time, even undergraduate transfers are having their cases approved by the NCAA, so that they may play right away at their new schools.


I did not know that. I knew about the portal but did not realize the rules about transfers had changed so dramatically. So, the comments above about letting Fields play at OSU would set a new precedent apparently not true. It seems this is the new normal. I was completely unaware of that.

I am 100% in favor of this, btw. I was against it when it looked like it was one kid having an exception made for him. But, I am absolutely in favor of a system that makes it easier for all players to jump ship and play right away. I hope they change that "three-fourths" number to 100%.
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psuro
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Re: 2019 Recruiting Thread

Postby psuro » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:11 am

Three years after high school is still a good idea. The way a players body changes from 18-21 is far more dramatic and important for football players than it is for other sports. An 18 year old out of high school simply does not have the physical attributes to go against a 28 year old NFL player. An 18 year old in the NBA or NHL or MLB does, for their respective sports - or is at least a lot closer to where they need to be physically to compete at that level.

So, no issue with the 3 year rule. It does not mean that the player has to stay in college - he can get a job, or simply work out non stop between high school and the NFL draft.

Blue&White
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Re: 2019 Recruiting Thread

Postby Blue&White » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:38 am

Three years after high school is still a good idea. The way a players body changes from 18-21 is far more dramatic and important for football players than it is for other sports. An 18 year old out of high school simply does not have the physical attributes to go against a 28 year old NFL player. An 18 year old in the NBA or NHL or MLB does, for their respective sports - or is at least a lot closer to where they need to be physically to compete at that level.

Sorry, but this is bullshit. It may be that a player is not as physically ready for the NFL as he may believe, but the idea that we are going to prevent it and pretend that it is in anyway for the players benefit is absolute bullshit. Give them the the ability to see how the market feels. The vast majority of players will not be able to do it. And, some subset of those players will believe that they can, try it, and fail. But, the idea that they can't try because other people feel they are not ready, or whatever the excuse, is bullshit. The 3 year rule exists to force players into a minor league NFL system where the are not paid and the NFL does not have to make any investment. Oh, and a bunch of people other than the players get rich. That's why that rule exists. Not becuase of any bullshit about their physical growth.

Sorry ro, but that was a really poor answer.
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psuro
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Re: 2019 Recruiting Thread

Postby psuro » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:54 am

No it's a good answer. You just don't agree with it, because you are obsessed with the idea that there is some sort of conspiracy in play. That's the only bullshit here.

Moving on, looks like Phil Galiano has left the PSU football program for an NfL opportunity. If you are interested in the special teams job, feel free to apply.

nittwittier
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Re: 2019 Recruiting Thread

Postby nittwittier » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:48 pm

Blue&White wrote:Sorry, but this is bullshit. It may be that a player is not as physically ready for the NFL as he may believe, but the idea that we are going to prevent it and pretend that it is in anyway for the players benefit is absolute bullshit. Give them the the ability to see how the market feels. The vast majority of players will not be able to do it. And, some subset of those players will believe that they can, try it, and fail. But, the idea that they can't try because other people feel they are not ready, or whatever the excuse, is bullshit. The 3 year rule exists to force players into a minor league NFL system where the are not paid and the NFL does not have to make any investment. Oh, and a bunch of people other than the players get rich. That's why that rule exists. Not becuase of any bullshit about their physical growth.


Yup. This has literally zero to do with the well-being of the players. This has everything to do with one multi-billion dollar enterprise not wanting to lose its free labor and another multi-billion dollar enterprise wanting to de-risk its recruitment/drafting. It would be harder for GMs to make calls on younger, physically undeveloped players, with a smaller sample set of game-film. So they institute this immoral (and what has to be illegal if properly challenged) rule.

The "conspiracy" may not be explicit, but it is certainly tacit, and neither entity has any reason to derail this gravy train.

Trevor Lawrence would be the first pick in the draft this year - but forcing him to play college ball for two more years, for a program that may have "accidentally" drugged their players with PEDs, risk injuries and/or poor performance. and earn zero-dollars in the meantime is somehow good for him?

Blue&White
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Re: 2019 Recruiting Thread

Postby Blue&White » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:59 pm

I think it's not even tacit. Looking at what was presented during the Maurice Clarett challenge to this, it was pretty clear why the NFL does this.

The idea that any group can profit from a situation where they hold another group down, and claim it is for that groups own good is just laughable. You're better than that, ro. You know that argument is bullshit. The reality is that the vast majority of college players wouldn't go earlier than they do now. But, some would and there is zero reason not to let them try.

College sports have become incredibly exploitive. I am for anything that helps even the playiing field.
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Blue&White
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Re: 2019 Recruiting Thread

Postby Blue&White » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:07 pm

nittwittier wrote:Trevor Lawrence would be the first pick in the draft this year - but forcing him to play college ball for two more years, for a program that may have "accidentally" drugged their players with PEDs, risk injuries and/or poor performance. and earn zero-dollars in the meantime is somehow good for him?


I forgot about that. Can you imagine the reaction if the players came out and said 'hey, we only 'accidentally' too a banned substance"? Everyone in Clemson remotely associated with that should have been fired and there should be a criminal investigation.

Like I have said many times on this forum - college sports is an immoral cesspool. When it comes to the players, I do not believe that there is anything that is actually done for their benefit.
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sameoldlama
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Re: 2019 Recruiting Thread

Postby sameoldlama » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:09 pm

The NHL and MLB can take guys out of HS because they have fully established minor league systems to develop talents that offers them a level of competition above college and below pro. College is the minor league system for NFL and NBA and as people have noted - it's free and reduces risk in picking a player on a limited sample size.

I agree with psuro that virtually no player could make the jump from HS to NFL and even top talents like Barkley need 2-4 years in college to physically develop, develop the skill sets and learn the game to maximize their potential success.

IMO the solution is something we've bandied about before - allow these guys to make money of their own likeness or from endorsements while they are in school. For many of these guys the decision to go early stems from personal or family economic pressures. Relieve that and it serves the best interests of the athlete, the college game and the pro game.
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Blue&White
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Re: 2019 Recruiting Thread

Postby Blue&White » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:56 pm

IMO the solution is something we've bandied about before - allow these guys to make money of their own likeness or from endorsements while they are in school. For many of these guys the decision to go early stems from personal or family economic pressures. Relieve that and it serves the best interests of the athlete, the college game and the pro game.

I agree that should happen, but I think it's a distinct issue from when they can turn pro.

The issue isn't whether or not they can make it in the NFL out of high school. The issue is that this business of forcing them to provide free labor and get seasoning is wrong, and pretending it's for their own good is really ridiculous. The reality is that the vast majority of them will not make the jump early because they can't. Even with them being allowed to leave after 3 years, most college football players stay for 4 full years. But, there are guys who are freaks and can go early. Or, think they can go early. Maybe they can't and they regret trying. But, I don't think it's at all right that we force them to do it. Let them try and fail. That's their right. Or, at least it should be.

We don't force kids to go to college or trade school. We generally frown on the idea of protecting people from their own folly. But, when there are millions, and even billions, of dollars to be made by people other than the players, we suddenly care about protecting them from themselves and their bad decisions? I don't buy that. Let them go out and earn what money they can. Let them make their own decisions about when they are ready for the NFL.

Btw, another rule I'd change is this nonsense that once you declare for the draft you lose your college eligibility. That's a rule that also has one purpose in mind - to keep kids on the bubble from risking it and trying to leave early. If it were up to me, they would be free to try to get to the NFL whenver they wanted, and if they didn't get drafted or signed as an FA and wanted to then go play college, then give them that option. Why not? What's the downside? I'm ok with the idea that once you sign a contract, even if you get cut, you forfeit your amateur status and are not eligible to play college ball. But, until you get paid, you're an amateur. Why should trying to get paid be held against you?

These rules benefit one side of the equation, and to the complete detriment of the other side/players. It's not right.
Is it baseball season yet?