College Sports Scandals

Blue&White
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Re: College Sports Scandals

Postby Blue&White » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:36 pm

Everyone knew everyone else knew and everyone hoped someone else would do something. Unfortunately it took a long time until someone did.

I don't know that I buy this. The idea that people just ignored a pedophile and hoped someone else would take care of it doesn't really work for me as a concept. I think what is more likely is that people didn't know, people suspected, and people didn't come forward because it didn't make sense a man his age would just start molesting kids and a man of his notoriety woulnd't be able go undeteceted doing someting like that and everyone just thought they had to be wrong.

the cops in 98 were on to him but ultimately no charges were filed. We will never know exactly what they thought but part of me suspects the DA figured it was a misunderstanding. It had to be, right? You have a guy who fosters kids, runs a charity for kids, is a big hero in the community between being the Defensive Coordinator at Penn State and all his charity work. How could something like this not have come up before? He was in his late 40s or early 50s in 1998. People don't start molesting kids at that age. They start much, much earlier. So, how did this first come up in 1998? Didn't make any sense. The state clears him eveyr single year to work with kids. Has to be a misunderstanding. And, they let him go.

Similar with Larry Nassar. It just couldn't be true. It didn't make any sense. Apply most of the things I said above to him. And you have another scumbag who molests kids for 20 years.

But, I don't accept that people really just knew and didn't act on it.
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sameoldlama
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Re: College Sports Scandals

Postby sameoldlama » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:04 pm

He was pulling kids out of HS classes and getting petulant if he got any resistance .....

He slept in the basement with kids at his home instead of with his wife ........

He was caught multiple times in showers with kids at times when it was clear he expected he would be in facility alone ......

He was told by a cop to stop showering with kids and he did it again anyway ......

He was observed by janitorial staff engaged in oral copulation with a kid ....... that one is kind of a dead give away

There were stories he was showing up at hotels in the town he lived in with a kid that wasn't his in the middle of the day in the middle of the week .... I'm guessing nobody on this board has ever done that or even known someone who did that

McQ testified he was engaged in sexual activity with a kid in a shower .......

People didn't know? Come on. They might not have known how prolific a child molester he was but clearly there were so many red flags flying around this guy you would have thought it was a Chinese military parade. People didn't want to know and no one wanted to be the one who exposed the guy with the great public image. Nobody wants to be at ground zero when a nuclear explosion occurs.

And after McQ reports to Schultz and Curley how come nobody from legal or HR ever talks to McQ or JS or tries to find the kid? There is just zero chance it ends there unless you are trying to keep the matter in house.
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Crowbar
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Re: College Sports Scandals

Postby Crowbar » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:11 pm

My only issue is if they reported him before the bottom fell out would it really have been a nuclear meltdown? Sure it would have been in the news and all but I don't think PSU would've looked bad if he was arrested before all that happened. If anything I think they would have looked good turning him in.
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Carl Spackler
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Re: College Sports Scandals

Postby Carl Spackler » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:17 pm

I believe you don't accept it because had you known of a situation in your sphere of influence like this you have howled like a banshee. That is your moral position.

imo, the "dead smelly cat in the middle of the room" all the time was the specter of the squeaky clean football program that employed the perp. until retirement and then allowed access as prof. emeritus. BTW, that is not at all unusual, it is common but some make it out to be special treatment, it wasn't'.

I suspect there was some hesitation due to the football connection. Joe didn't ask for it, PSU didn't ask for it, it came with the territory of being a big fish in a very small pond for a very long time. In a manner, it was bound to happen out in the good ole boy network hills of Appalachia. Everyone knows everyone else and all their relatives. I was raised in that environment so I perceive it differently than others looking in from the outside. I ventured outside as an adult and learned many things. One thing I did NOT learn was the insular way these communities operate. I never appreciated that, ever. I think you have to live it to really grasp it and what the mentality is and does given any circumstance. It used to drive me crazy.
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sameoldlama
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Re: College Sports Scandals

Postby sameoldlama » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:34 pm

I agree with you Crow - but if a person doesn't act immediately they become open to criticism - the longer they did nothing the harder it becomes to do something. And my God in our current climate anyone who does anything that isn't deemed to be perfect by everyone they face backlash from the social media mob.

But try and think about the kid who JS molested and it was witnessed by janitor and the one McQ witnessed. These kids were likely troubled kids who struggled with self worth and the trauma of being abused my a sociopathic pedophile. They were probably convinced no one would believe them if they told and I'm sure the abuse made them feel like nothing.

And then a miracle - somebody witnesses JS abusing them - surely they thought - finally - it's over. Surely this adult will intervene - but they don't. They don't confront Sandusky, no one goes to the cops, no one come and saves them and tells them JS will never hurt them again and it wasn't their fault. And the abuse continues.

I imagine at the moment they think - no one cares about me, I am truly worthless - no one is going to make this stop. If someone sees it and nothing happens what good will me saying something do? I imagine they thought - my only way out of this is to run away physically, run away emotionally through substance abuse, to commit suicide or to kill Jerry. It's hard to contemplate the level of hopelessness they must have felt.

It's hard for me to reconcile that and give the people who should have stepped up the benefit of the doubt.
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Blue&White
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Re: College Sports Scandals

Postby Blue&White » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:52 pm

The problem with the list you put together is you consolidate it like all these things happened at one time (and, I thought the jantior story was never corroborated). But, they did not. And, to my earlier point, while I agree all these things are red flags, none of them, in a vacuum, is enough to automatically make you think "he must be molesting kids". On the contrary, while it all looks suspicious I can easily imagine why people who are otherwise decent people would assume nothing is wrong because a) he's at an age where you don't start molesting kids, b) he's been repeatedly cleared by the state to both foster kids and work with them as part of his charity and c) his status as a local celebrity and people couldn't fathom him doing these things. You put all these events together and draw the conclusion "people HAD to have known" but I think that's a mistake. All these people were acting in a vacuum.

Again, I am not defending inaction by all these people. The schools should have followed rules and stuck to their guns. Curley and Scultz should have ensured that the proper authorities were notified and let them do their thing. There are multiple failures at multiple levels by dozens, and possibly hundreds, of people. That I absolutely accept. What I don't accept is that people knew and just didn't give a fuck becuase it was inconvenient.

Maybe I put too much faith in my fellow humans or maybe you put too little. It's one of those things.
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sameoldlama
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Re: College Sports Scandals

Postby sameoldlama » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:33 pm

So what happened at MSU, the Catholic Church, Congressional interns and Harvey Weinstein. A lot of decent people came up kind of short there too.

As a PSU alum I wish I could find another answer but Curley, Schultz and Joe were aware of the 98 investigation so when McQ told them what he witnessed its hard to believe they didn't know JS was a child molestor. They might not have known how prolific and maybe they made the mistake of thinking they could scare him into stopping but once he called their bluff and kept bringing kids around he owned them. He knew they couldn't go public after 2001 because it would come out they had let it go before.
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psu_dad
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Re: College Sports Scandals

Postby psu_dad » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:18 pm

Curley, Schultz and Joe were aware of the 98 investigation so when McQ told them what he witnessed its hard to believe they didn't know JS was a child molestor.

But they didn't know that based on the 1998 investigation because that investigation ultimately resulted in diddly-squat. The district attorney’s office declined to press charges and child welfare officials also declined to revoke Sandusky’s clearance to work with children. What I DO find hard to believe is that the McQ allegations in 2001 didn't prompt someone (Curley, Schultz or Joe) to notify the police, given that they knew Sandusky had been investigated three years earlier.

Even if they didn't "know" he was a child molestor at that point, further action than they took was warranted.
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LioninVa
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Re: College Sports Scandals

Postby LioninVa » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:29 am

The problem with the one McQ witnesses is that his statements were inconsistent. Remember that this one didn't hold up in the jurors eyes. And the janitor situation was heresy. _dad is correct that the 98 incident did nothing as he was essentially cleared. If I were to play the devils advocate, I could see that the shower stuff was simply a matter of horseplay. I grew up in an era where we swam naked at the YMCA and coaches showered with the team.

I have followers of the folks digging into this and my mind is not 100% made up. Admitu, this could be because I don't want to believe this would happen at my school and that JoeL's or The others knew about it. The crux of the biscuit it that it's bad either way; we harbored a pedophile or we paid off a bunch of claims for no reason.

Blue&White
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Re: College Sports Scandals

Postby Blue&White » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:58 am

hat I DO find hard to believe is that the McQ allegations in 2001 didn't prompt someone (Curley, Schultz or Joe) to notify the police, given that they knew Sandusky had been investigated three years earlier.

My recollection is the only one who knew about the 98 investigation was Schultz. I didn't think Curley or Joe knew. And, McQuery's story was that when he told Joe he was deliberately not specific out of respect for Joe. And, even with that, Joe actually did follow the law and report it upwards as required.

I'm not defending the inaction taken by PSU administrators over the McQuery accusation. McQ claimed he was very specific with Curley and Schultz and testified to that under oath before the grand jury. And, for whatever reason, they did nothing. I don't want to rehash the whole sordid affair over and over. Sandusky went to jail and Schultz and Curley and then Spanier all faced criminal penalties and either plead guilty or were convicted. I was really ok with all of that and thought it was the right outcome. The only thing I objected to was Lama's presumption that all these people knew what was going on and just chose to ignore it. Maybe they should have known and maybe they should have asked more questions. Undoubtedly that is true. But, I can't just accept they all had certainty and and ignored it.

Btw, that is the complete opposite of the Catholic Church where they absolutely did know what was going on and not only ignored it but enabled it.
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