Barkley

Blue&White
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Re: Barkley

Postby Blue&White » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:54 pm

Barkley is hands down the best player in the draft. The only question is do you use the overall 2nd pick to take a RB?

I want him as a Giant but I'm not convinced they will. We'll know soon enough. Can't wait.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

Crowbar
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Re: Barkley

Postby Crowbar » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:34 am

I hope and pray Eagles fans flock to Dallas in masse and boo the hell out of that jerk Jerry Jones right in his own city. That would be historically hilarious. Almost as funny as when during SB week when they booed Emmitt Smith during a radio gig with a Dallas radio station that was so intense you could hear the boos and E-A-G-L-E-S chants over the interview on the radio.
41-33.

Blue&White
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Re: Barkley

Postby Blue&White » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:07 am

I hope Jets fans make the trip. There are few sources of comedy greater than Jets fans on draft day.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

sameoldlama
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Re: Barkley

Postby sameoldlama » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:52 am

Blue&White wrote:Barkley is hands down the best player in the draft. The only question is do you use the overall 2nd pick to take a RB?

I want him as a Giant but I'm not convinced they will. We'll know soon enough. Can't wait.


I think you also have to factor in risk - I see Chubb and Barkley both being lower risk picks than any of the QBs. I think it's a greater sin the burn a pick reaching for a QB who never materializes than to pick a low risk guy like Chubb / Barkley who still play key positions and positions of need for your team.
Is anyone going to be shocked if three of the "Top 5" QBs busts out in less than 4 years?

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Blue&White
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Re: Barkley

Postby Blue&White » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:06 am

Is anyone going to be shocked if three of the "Top 5" QBs busts out in less than 4 years?

No. In fact, I will be more surprised if one of them turns into a star. 1st round QB picks turn into busts far more often than they succeed. That's why I think it's very likely the Giants will trade down and see if they can grab Barkley at #5 or something. The problem is if he's there at 4, I can't believe the Browns don't take him.

I've been reading the Giants are having a big internal debate on this. My bet is they don't take him. Gettleman's philosophy seems to be that you build your team with really big guys on both sides of the line. The Giants need a QB for the future and they need to upgrade their offensive line. A running back, even a once-in-a-generation talent like Barkley, is a luxury at this point.

Looking at this objectively, I think the Giants have bigger needs. They need to try to replace Manning and they need to beef up the line. Otherwise, a Barkley would be wasted in New York. If they don't think any of the QBs are good enough to take over the franchise and last for 10 - 15 years, I think they trade down.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

PSUgrower
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Re: Barkley

Postby PSUgrower » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:18 am

Blue&White wrote:Since 2007 the Browns have taken a QB in the first round 3 times. And not one of those QBs gave them any success. The biggest return they got on any of them was Brandon Weeden, who started a total of 20 games for Cleveland.

What are the odds that they blow this pick? They should take Barkley with the 1st pick because they clearly suck at QB evaluation. They should go with the George Costanza "opposite" approach to the draft because every instinct they ever had was wrong.

All 3 of those picks were the 22nd kid taken in the draft. If they were such a good QB the kid would be off the board a lot earlier. Tim Couch was a massive bust!

PSUgrower
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Re: Barkley

Postby PSUgrower » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:22 am

Blue&White wrote:Is anyone going to be shocked if three of the "Top 5" QBs busts out in less than 4 years?

No. In fact, I will be more surprised if one of them turns into a star. 1st round QB picks turn into busts far more often than they succeed. That's why I think it's very likely the Giants will trade down and see if they can grab Barkley at #5 or something. The problem is if he's there at 4, I can't believe the Browns don't take him.

I've been reading the Giants are having a big internal debate on this. My bet is they don't take him. Gettleman's philosophy seems to be that you build your team with really big guys on both sides of the line. The Giants need a QB for the future and they need to upgrade their offensive line. A running back, even a once-in-a-generation talent like Barkley, is a luxury at this point.

Looking at this objectively, I think the Giants have bigger needs. They need to try to replace Manning and they need to beef up the line. Otherwise, a Barkley would be wasted in New York. If they don't think any of the QBs are good enough to take over the franchise and last for 10 - 15 years, I think they trade down.

Again, you have to look at when the QB is taken in the 1st round. Huge difference between a QB taken within first 5 picks compared to a QB taken after pick 11

sameoldlama
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Re: Barkley

Postby sameoldlama » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:01 am

I agree the NYG debate is Chubb vs Barkley and if I take away my bias - if they can make a deal with Denver at #5 and pick up an additional asset Like a second rounder) then that's a reasonable move. Denver will go QB at the #2 so you still get Barkley or Chubb.

If the Browns take Barkley at #1 - then the NYG should have an open season on the pick because now Denver, Buffalo and Miami will come hard for a shot at first QB off the board.

Stay strong B&W - my LV pipeline still has Barkley going #2 to NYG at better than 50/50

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Blue&White
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Re: Barkley

Postby Blue&White » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:20 am

Again, you have to look at when the QB is taken in the 1st round. Huge difference between a QB taken within first 5 picks compared to a QB taken after pick 11

There have been plenty of QB busts taken in the top 10, though. The list of top 10 busts since 2000 include (the guys in bold were #1 picks):
- Mark Sanchez (and he's arguably a bust as he took the Jets to back-to-back AFC championship games)
- Jamarcus Russell was a YUGE bust
- Vince Young
- Matt Leinart (just on the cusp as he was the 10th pick but ... bust)
- Byron Leftwich
- David Carr
- Joey Harrington (I had completely forgotten he was in the NFL)
- Tim Couch
- Akili Smith

I'd have to go through the full list of QBs taken during the period but I'd bet that it's close to 50-50 within the top 10. I simply don't buy the idea that picking a QB early gets you any kind of success. There is no such thing as a "can't miss" draft pick. There are plenty of QBs who have been successful taken later in the 1st round or not taken in the 1st round at all. Hell, Tom Brady was a 6th round pick. Kurt Warner washed out as an undrafted free agent with Green Bay at first and was bagging groceries when he came back to the NFL.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

PSUgrower
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Re: Barkley

Postby PSUgrower » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:56 pm

Your stats are going to change your mind. Yes, it is probably a 50/50 rate on busts when QB are drafted before round 10. But, I am willing the bet that any QB drafted after player 12 are not close to being a 50/50 bust. I bet most of the QBs taken have been busts