Politics

psu_dad
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Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:37 am

I have more than one Norwegian acquaintance. And they rock. My best friend in middle school was Norwegian and aside from having a cool name (Magnus), his older sister was ridiculously hot.
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Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:49 am

Hey, I'm all for more Norwegians. I don't know why they would want to come here, though. They have better healthcare, a longer life expectancy, loads of hot women, they are close to Sweden which also has loads of hot women, an awesome history that includes Vikings, and the head of their country isn't a global embarrassment.

On a related side note, the other day my wife and I agreed that if the 2020 election is Trump vs. Oprah, we're out of here. And, Norway was high on the list of places we thought we talked about heading.
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PittGradPSUMad
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Re: Politics

Postby PittGradPSUMad » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:17 am

Yes, Norway just moved ahead of Tahiti on my expats list. Attended a wedding where the maid of honor was Norwegian....blond, beautiful and looked fabulous in a bikini. Yes, there was swimming involved....don't ask. Just take my word for it that she was stunning. Unfortunately, she was also twenty-something and, thus, I was invisible to her. Actually, it seems I've become invisible to most, if not all, of the attractive women out there. Sigh.
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psu_dad
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Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:22 am

One of my early mentors was a guy who emigrated here from Sweden. He was proud of his heritage, but became convinced this was the place for him. He said that if you weren't particularly ambitious, Sweden was a great place to live because the government would provide you with whatever you needed. But for those who were ambitious, there wasn't as much upwards mobility as there was here, mostly because the tax burden was totally ridiculous.
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Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:58 am

So, going forward, I guess all immigrants will look something like this:

Image
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psu_dad
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Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:09 am

No, we'll probably continue to get the huddled masses and wretched refuse.
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Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:22 am

People forget that it's the huddled masses and wretched refuse that came here seeking a better life and built this country into what it is today. My father's parents certainly fit that description. And, while they may not have come from a "shithole" country, even by the contemporary standards of the time, they were certainly considered to be a "shithole" ethnicity. The Jews, Irish and Italians that fled to this country in the mid to late 19th and into the 20th century up to WW2 were despised by the native communities and heavily discriminated against. The Chinese who flooded into the west coast were treated much the same way. And, the same things were said about those groups - they were lazy, they were all criminals, they couldn't be trusted, they wouldn't fit in. But I guess at least they were white (not the Chinese, obviously) so certain sins were forgiven.

But, the point is, the people who are clamoring for a better life are usually the ones who will come here and be the most productive. Most of them just want a chance to succeed. That's what makes Trump's comments so incredibly offensive. All of us trace our ancestry back to immigration here and very, very few of us can trace our lineage back beyond the point of the country's founding. So, immigration laws and a willingness to allow the "wretched refuse" is the bond that links almost all Americans. We've lost sight of that somehow.

And, I think that the current wave of immigrants aren't white is a big part of why. Not just for Trump but for a lot of people here.
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psu_dad
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Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:02 am

You're applying 19th century sensibilities to modern times. That doesn't work, any more than me suggesting women shouldn't be allowed to vote because they weren't allowed to vote back then.

We didn't have much to lose by letting uneducated people stream in here in the 19th and early 20th century for a couple of reasons. One reason was that there was no taxpayer-supported "safety net". If those people couldn't get by on their own, it was tough noogies for them. The other reason is that we were transforming from an agrarian society to an industrial one and there was a demand for physical labor. Neither of those situations apply today.

In MA, the cost to taxpayers for services to illegal immigrants (health care, housing, education, etc.) has been estimated at $1.9B a year. The amount of taxes they pay has been estimated at $66M a year. Tell me that's not insane. I dare you.
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Blue&White
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Re: Politics

Postby Blue&White » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:23 am

It's absolutely insane. But, illegal immigration is a slightly different issue (yes, I get your making a point about the economics around letting poorer, uneducated people into the country, illegal or otherwise).

Part of the problem is Trump seems to want to limit immigration to a very select group of people - educated whites. He is attacking the work visa program that seems to favor people from Asia (and really southern Asia). He doesn't want people from countries where there is higher crime because of course everyone there must be a criminal. Many of the complaints he's registered about our immigration policies are simply just not true. The people who come on the lottery system are not picked by the governments of those countries and they are not sending us their criminals. That's not how the lottery works at all. Immigrants coming to this country do not commit more crimes than native born people no matter what scale you use. And, people fleeing from terrorism are not usually terrorists. The way the refugee program works, those people generally have no idea where they are going to be settles.

That doesn't mean that no immigrant is a criminal or that no terrorist can get in. Of course that can happen. But, we are doing a fine job radicalizing people here all on our own.

This is more than a crackdown on poor people or people without sufficient education. This is a crackdown based on race and ethnicity. It's appalling and absolutely un-American. You can shrug it off if you want, but it doesn't impact you. You may be of an ethnicity that was looked down upon in the past but the country is past that now. We no longer spend a majority of our time shitting on the Jews, Italians and Irish. We have brown people for that now. And, then we act shocked when they don't feel part of our society and integrate.
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psu_dad
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Re: Politics

Postby psu_dad » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:11 am

And, then we act shocked when they don't feel part of our society and integrate.

That's total bull shit.

People shat on my wife's ancestors and my ancestors when they came here and that didn't stop them from integrating. And they didn't have 0.00001% of the support from the government that contemporary immigrants have.
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