Barkley

sameoldlama
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Re: Barkley

Postby sameoldlama » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:35 pm

PSUgrower wrote:Believe me, I hate them both too. Sanchez was a pretty boy who didn't put in the time. But to turn a blind eye because you hate the team isn't the way to draft a football team. Business over pleasure


Aren't you the one hoping Barkley doesn't go to Giants because you hate the Giants?

In my opinion Cleveland should go QB at #1 - if they don't the Giants could either take a QB at #2 or trade down to a team that will go QB (which I suspect they would do). Jets will take a QB at #3 - this potentially leaves Cleveland with their 3rd choice at QB. If you truly believe a QB is potentially a franchise QB you take him - you don't settle for your 2nd or 3rd choice. A true franchise QB could be with your franchise 10-15 years. If you get 6-8 years from a franchise RB that's a good run. The top 4-5 QBs in this draft are not all going to be franchise QBs - if you're a GM who doesn't think there's much difference between them then they aren't worth Top 10 pick.

Between signing Hyde, dumping Kizer, having Taylor on a one year deal - Cleveland is going QB at # 1. Barkley will be there for Giants at #2.

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Blue&White
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Re: Barkley

Postby Blue&White » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:15 pm

The Giants are talking up Barkley a lot now, and saying how he is a "can't miss" pick. That makes me think they are taking a QB or, more likely, trading the pick.

I think they trade OBJ, too. I have the impression John Mara has had enough.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

PSUgrower
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Re: Barkley

Postby PSUgrower » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:21 pm

Yes, I hope he doesn't go to the Giants because I hate them. But... the Giants need a Qb and a lot more to build their team for the future. Cleveland has a boat load of picks and young talent and they should take the best player on the board because they can. I think Cleveland takes the best QB available and then possibly starts to take the best player available. Taking the best player available and take what you need to fill your team are 2 totally different ways to draft.

PSUgrower
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Re: Barkley

Postby PSUgrower » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:25 pm

BTW- I would get rid of OBL because he is a chump. Draft someone or bring in a free agent.

Blue&White
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Re: Barkley

Postby Blue&White » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:31 am

So, you take and keep the best players for your needs, unless the player is a "chump". Doesn't matter if he's one of the 5 best at his position by any and all objective standards, just that he's a "chump". You should write these rules down and sell them to NFL teams. I'm sure they will be all over your insights.

I think the Giants are likely to trade OBJ because he's in a contract year and is threatening to hold out, and they are not inclined to pay him. He's looking for big money and he's already had a serious injury that can impact his speed and mobility. That is reason enough to be scared off. It doesn't help that he drives Giants ownership crazy. The Mara family are not fans of big mouths and showboating. But, they will forgive a lot. Wellington Mara stood by Lawrence Taylor despite all his problems, but he genuinely liked Taylor. I don't think John Mara cares for OBJ at all. We'll see what happens, but I doubt the "chump" factor plays into the decision at all.

If they do trade OBJ, it will be for a few #1 draft picks. And, if they trade him, I don't know if it makes it more or less likely they sign Barkley. If they trade Beckham, I think they are then officially in rebuild mode and probably draft a QB with that pick. As Lama said, a top QB can last for 15 years. A top RB has a shelf life of 6 to 8 years. Do you spend the #2 pick in the draft on a guy with a short lifespan in the league? I want the Giants to take Barkley but, really, it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to do it. Not at #2.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

PSUgrower
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Re: Barkley

Postby PSUgrower » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:41 am

Blue&White wrote:So, you take and keep the best players for your needs, unless the player is a "chump". Doesn't matter if he's one of the 5 best at his position by any and all objective standards, just that he's a "chump". You should write these rules down and sell them to NFL teams. I'm sure they will be all over your insights.

I am sure NFL teams already do this for the most part. I read an article that says Cleveland has a history of taking the best player at a certain position rather than the best player on the board. It is kind of like fantasy football because I am sure you have debated at one point taking a player because you need that position or taking the best play available.

I am not a fan of bringing in chumps just because they are good. I would love to see Bennet get released from the Eagles but who knows. There is something to be said about cancers in a locker room.

sameoldlama
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Re: Barkley

Postby sameoldlama » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:45 am

I agree the Giants potentially see OBJ as too high a risk from an injury / off the field issue to invest max dollars in a long term contract that his on field talent is worth - the issue isn't his on field value - it's will he be available to be on the field.

I don't think you have a "can't miss" franchise QB in this draft - I really don't even see any of these guys as first year ready starters. Barkley is a Day 1 starter and if the team has a decent OL he will be productive. We all witnessed how he made every offensive guy around him better because teams had to scheme to stop him - does anyone believe McSorely, Godwin, Gesecki, Hamilton put up the numbers they did without Barkley in the backfield - and PSU did not have a dominant OL.

He can do that for the Giants - they made improvements to OL in FA - he makes Manning and OBJ and your TE better just by being on the field. And you still have early picks in next rounds to build on that.

The Lama Lock Prediction - Giants draft Barkley - he stays healthy - they make playoffs.

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Blue&White
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Re: Barkley

Postby Blue&White » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:52 am

I agree with you on OBJ. And, if he's going to sit and hold out for a new contract, then Mara is going to try to trade him. The Giants won't give him away but if they can get a #1 and #2 for this year and a #1 for next year, that may do it. Let someone else write the check and take the chance. I think he's a game changing player and, when he's healthy and not making an ass out of himself, he can elevate a team to a few extra wins a year. If he goes to the Rams, and he's healthy, I'd say they are a lock for the playoffs. But, he comes with a lot of baggage and a lot of risks.

I also agree with you that there is no 2018 starting QB in this draft. But, the Giants don't need one. They have Eli and he can play for another year or 2. They can take a kid they like and take the time to help him properly develop. they also have a QB who they drafted in the 3rd round last year but never gave a chance to take the field last year when they should have.

I have no idea what the Giants are going to do. My guess is they are going to trade down and Barkley is going to end up in Cleveland (the Horror!!!). I hope I'm wrong and they take him, but they are spending a lot of time talking about what a great prospect he is and how they think he's a "can't miss" pick. I know there is a brand new GM and I don't know anything about how he operates, but historically when a team starts talking about a player like this it's to throw up smoke.

Sorry, Lama, but I don't believe in the dream. I want the dream, but the realist in me just doesn't see it happening.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?

PSUgrower
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Re: Barkley

Postby PSUgrower » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:21 am

Here is the problem with that thinking: picking a QB early in the draft is important. Go back and look at all the QB drafted. Most of the excellent QB have been taking with the first few picks. Yes, there are a few busts. I have no clue on the QB draft class coming out next year but I would take a look especially if a team is going to need a QB in the future. The Eagles were luck this year but a QB is what makes a team for the most part. A QB can make a coach look really good (Matt Ryan made his coach look good last year) or they can work with the coach and take the team to Superbowls (See Belichick and Brady). There is a good chance that the Giants will not have the number 2 pick for a long time so they better make sure they don't pass up on a QB who could be the future of their team once stink face Eli retires. He always looks like he changing a ginormous poop diaper!

Blue&White
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Re: Barkley

Postby Blue&White » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:25 am

Yes, there are a few busts.

There are more than a few. I think the majority of 1st round QBs don't pan out. The Giants have to bite the bullet at some point soon because Eli doesn't have much left in the tank, but I'm not convinced they are going QB this year. They may. I wouldn't be shocked if they did, but I think trading down is more likely. We'll see. It's hard to guess.
Alex Cora sucks. Mickey Callaway sucks. Baseball sucks. Everything and everyone just sucks. Is it football season yet?